Self-realizations -warning: disturbing content-

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So I’ve been doing a lot of introspection lately. Just thinking about my life and why I act the way I do. And the results I’ve come up with have been less than pleasant, to say the least.

Let’s start with my childhood. I was a vicious, selfish, violent child. I usually managed to avoid getting in trouble for it, but I would hurt my classmates if I disagreed with them on something. I never felt any remorse or shame for this behavior, even when I would get caught.

Moving on, in my adolescence I became very good at manipulating people to get what I wanted. Everyone told me how bright and gifted I was, and showered me with praise, while I was pulling strings and cultivating a personality that went along with my family’s expectations of me. I was a social chameleon, changing my behavior to suit whatever group I was in at the time, down to altering my speech patterns and body language to “fit in”. I got VERY good at this.I worked hard to keep my different circles of friends from meeting, as that would dissolve the illusion.

In my late teens and early 20s, I became extremely self-conscious and paranoid. I trusted nobody, and was convinced that they saw through my disguises and were plotting against me. I engaged in wildly generous behavior in a desperate attempt to cling onto my relationships, not out of a need for social contact, but because I couldn’t stand the thought of being “found out” and abandoned.

Then came my mid-late 20s. I got VERY very good at pretending, and being the sympathetic ear, while I felt no remorse or sympathy for anyone. I LIKED having friends, but I didn’t and don’t care what happens to them. I had consolidated my friend groups and developed a persona that fit in with everyone, so I didn’t have to juggle any more. Then came the psychotic break. The flood gates opened, and I became intensely paranoid, my emotions went from zero to sixty in an instant, and everything became bright and loud and terrifying. This lasted for MONTHS, and during it all, I managed to maintain enough self-consciousness to keep my facade up, at least well enough that nobody suspected anything other than garden variety psychosis was going on.

Which brings us to now, in my early 30s. I’m stable, on good meds, and married to a man I truly enjoy being with. But through i all, I still have that same callous disregard for everyone, even my husband, and while I would be greatly upset were something to happen to him, it would be a purely selfish feeling, not mourning his passage but mourning the loss of what he provides me. I still have violent thoughts, though I manage to keep them contained, for fear of legal and societal repercussions.

Why am I sharing this with you? To be honest, boredom, mostly. I don’t think I’m in any danger of blowing my cover by “coming out” on this forum, and to be honest, I’m tired of the charade anyway. My husband knows all this about me, and still says he loves me regardless. And I guess I love him too, in my own way. I just want to be free and open about myself, and not have to play the game any more.

Any thoughts? I’m going to speak with my therapist about this next week, to see what she thinks. Hell, for all I know, she’ll want to put me in the hospital, though I doubt it. What would that accomplish, anyway? It’s not like I can be “cured”, and even if I could be, I’m not sure I want to. I don’t dislike the person I am, I just want to know what others think about it. Despite it all, I come across as a very polite, caring, loving person, because that’s the personality I’ve settled on. It’s all an act, but does that really matter in the end? Is it more about action or intention? Please keep religion out of this, I’m talking about the here and now, not some hypothetical afterlife.

Oh, and if anyone feels betrayed, like they had a concept of me as a person that I just shattered, well… Sorry? I guess? I mean, it’s empty, but apologizing is the socially correct thing to do, so there you go.

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Actions count for a lot. I’m glad you’ve settled on a caring persona, because it prompts you to act in a benevolent way, even if you get no personal emotional reward from doing so.

I guess that last part makes me a little sorry for you, though, because I find life without anyone to care for to be pretty empty and meaningless. I mean, I’m sure I could find plenty to occupy my time, but I’m not sure I’d want to. Having others to care for is an incredible buffer against despair.

In any case, if you’re content and your husband is aware and no one is being hurt - well, it takes all sorts and I wish you the best.

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I appreciate the sentiment. I agree that it’s a bit empty, but I guess I don’t know how to care about people, so what am I gonna do? It’s not like I made a conscious decision to be this way, I just am.

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Did you read much as a kid? How do you feel about fiction and movies? Sorry if you don’t feel like examining this angle or if the questions seem irrelevant, but I was just thinking about how stories about other people and imaginative play help develop the ability to identify with the emotions of others.

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I was actually a voracious reader as a child, way above my grade. I had and have a very vivid imagination, and often find myself daydreaming.

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Well, that shoots down that theory/suggestion! :joy_cat: No intent to offend or suggest you come across as unread (in fact quite the opposite.)

I’ve read that a lot of people with diminished empathy can create a pretty good working model of it by simply imagining themselves in similar situations, to the point where it becomes almost reflexive. But this is me assuming that you view this as a problem to be solved, which you’ve stated isn’t the case.

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Your story was inspirational to me, in a way. I can relate in a lot of ways.

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There was a long time where I felt this way. People were enamored by me, and I could get anything from them, but if they all disappeared, I wouldn’t care at all. I had a lot of “friends” and I did nice things for them, but it was just like you said, so they would like me.

For me, this callousness was born from a series of traumas, and psychosis. It went away with therapy and meds, and I was able to start caring for people. When I started feeling connections again, it all happened at once. It was like a switch got flipped on in my head, and I cared way too much for everyone I met. I had no idea how to cope with it. I would cry at commercials, and feel attached to strangers on the street. Over time, I learned how to process these new emotions without getting overwhelmed,

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This, to the letter ^

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@Ninjastar I don’t think this is going away for me- I’ve been on meds for years and they haven’t improved my ability to care one bit. I don’t want you to think I’m completely unemotional, I actually have emotions, though dulled. It takes a lot to make me cry, and most of my laughter is forced, but the feelings ARE still there, to some degree.

I’ve been this way since childhood, too. There’s a stereotype of the child who would torture small animals, and while I never killed anything bigger than a wasp, I was definitely a little bit sadistic when playing with them. Not too much, I’ve always liked animals far more than humans, but more out of curiosity than anything I would mess with them. Dissection in science class was fascinating. But I have had a few pets that I loved very much, and I was definitely sad when they died. Though on the flip side of that, when my grandparents died, I felt nothing. Even my grandfather, who died when I was 7.

I’ll say, I have been through some childhood trauma, not the fault of my parents but rather an extremely cruel and unfair school system. I was raped when I was 12, which messed me up for a while. But I don’t know if that is the reason for my being the way I am, or if it’s just a contributing factor.

@Lexicon I’m glad that you can find inspiration from my story! It’s kinda freeing to be open and honest about myself like this.

@Rhubot No offense taken! I don’t usually bother trying to make a working model of empathy, as I’ve gotten very good at acting and can emulate most emotions easily.

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I really don’t think this makes you lesser in any way. You’re outside the norm, but still a good person. I think actions matter a whole lot more than intentions, and your actions are that of a moral person.

I was a bit sadistic with animals as a kid, too. Nothing horrible, but I wasn’t the most caring soul around. For me, it was because that’s what I grew up seeing as normal. I grew out of it. Children don’t develop a sense of right and wrong until around age seven, so anything you did before that doesn’t really point to the kind of person you are.

I do believe childhood trauma plays a factor in this, but I don’t know for sure. I’ll research it a bit.

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My first thought is that you remind me of a few people I’ve known, and in some aspects myself. I have too much empathy in some cases, and absolutely none in others. I have to pretend empathy in situations where I don’t want to bring judgement on myself, but the truth is we can’t care about everyone and everything without going on overload and burning out.
You say you’ve never felt empathy, even as a child? People are born like that, with actual missing components to their brains, and some become criminals, so I’m glad your intellect allows you to make logical social choices.
Having said that, it’s my humble opinion that something was in fact done to you as a baby/toddler that you have suppressed. Whether it was a trauma or ongoing environmental stressor, you maybe developed a coping mechanism that shut down those “softer” emotions so that you could survive. That’s a huge leap into the unknown and I’m absolutely unqualified to make that assumption, but, like I said, I’ve known others like you and that’s all I have to go on.
I hope your therapist can shed some light. You’ve built up quite a fortress there from an early age. Maybe you don’t need to take it down as long as you remain conscious and aware and have no desire to harm.
(I have no intention of giving up my Seraton, my guardian angel. He protects and gives me power, and as long as I do no harm I also can remain the way I am.)

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I have no desire to harm most of the people I know, though there is one in particular I could leave dead in a ditch and sleep well that night. But he’s a serial rapist who’s never been caught, so screw him.

Yeah, I’m aware of the people who are born without empathy. I have no idea whether I am one, or if my personality is the result of childhood trauma, but either way, I have no desire to commit crimes so I don’t. And on the odd occasion that I DO feel the urge to do something illegal or amoral, logic steps in and reminds me of the repercussions. I have very low self esteem, and that includes not believing that I can get away with committing a crime. It’s an odd sort of safety mechanism, but it keeps me out of trouble.

I’m aware of the term that it seems would describe me, “sociopath” (or, well, ASPD, I suppose). I’ve considered the possibility for a while, and it’s been coming to a head recently, now that I’m being more mindful of what I’m doing and introspective. It doesn’t scare me, or make me worried, it’s just who I am. I’m kind because it furthers my goals, but I’m kind nonetheless.

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I believe that the support and empathy of this online community has made you feel that it’s safe to start taking off that suit of armor that you’ve been wearing for a long, long time. And I applaud your courage in doing so. All of the feelings and behaviors you’ve described, I believe, are the opposite of who you really are: An extremely kind and sensitive person. However, being kind and sensitive requires vulnerability, and when someone takes advantage of that vulnerability it’s as if your heart has been ripped out of your chest. It hurts. It really hurts. And living in that state is simply too painful, so you cope by putting on that suit of armor and stop caring about any one and any thing.

Paradoxically, that suit of armor that’s been beneficial to your survival in a cruel world becomes very heavy over time. You reach a point where it’s more beneficial to take it off than to keep wearing it.

This may be that point.

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When I read this, I saw myself, really. Like looking in a mirror. I’m at that early 20s stage.

My therapist thinks all of my cold, dead feelings and happy-go-lucky mask I wear are because of years of trauma at home as a child, but I disagree with her, thinking back on my childhood and the things I did to people back then and the things I’ve continued to do throughout the years with no remorse or guilt or empathy.

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@ZombiePupper I think it can be a combination of things. Nature AND nurture. Regardless of the cause, we are who we are. I choose not to be violent, or cruel, or hateful, but I have the capacity for such. And if someone seems to me like they deserve cruelty, I don’t hesitate, though I generally stick to pulling the strings behind the scenes rather than getting my hands dirty. But I take whatever opportunities present themselves to make my target’s life less pleasant.

@kindness Not particularly agreeing with you there. My armor isn’t my cold, callous side. That’s who I AM. The armor is the friendly, cheerful girl that I portray to my friends and family, to keep myself safe from their prejudice. I understand that “coming out” in this way may lose me some friends, but I’m just so tired of keeping up the act.

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So you have described all the feelings of a narcissistic personality disorder. I am sure you are aware of this. You have little or no care about telling others about it. As a narcissist it is common to be proud of these uncaring feelings, as displayed in your posts.

It is apparently uncurable, but you can learn to live within the confines of society and learn to display caring feelings when needed to for your own advantage. Advantage being that you will be accepted when you need it.

What are you hoping to get out of this discussion? For what advantage? Your own personal insight?

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Not sure about narcissism, my self esteem is actually fairly low. But you’re right that I feel a sort of pride at being the way I am. And I only don’t care about telling you all because none of you know me in person, and thus have little to no impact on my personal life. You’re “safe”. Though I will admit, I get a sort of thrill at talking about it openly.

What am I hoping to get? Mostly just an interesting discussion. Like I said, the people of this forum don’t have much to do with my daily life, so I feel comfortable talking about it, and I figured it would be interesting to someone. Maybe somebody will find a resonance, and discover a kindred spirit, as apparently has happened already several times in this thread. Also, yes, I want to gain more insight, and having others to talk to about this is helpful.

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Exploiting others imaginations at the idea of dark thoughts is not the same as what you are doing! You are expressing your loathing of humanity and using others, who are vulnerable to justify and enjoy your somewhat ‘evil’ thoughts.

The lack of empathy is not a nice trait, but the opposite. The dark thoughts others experience as part of their illness is not the same as being a bad person. It is the idea that they relate to, not actual actions.

Your actions and thoughts are somewhat disturbing and to what benefit is that to others who are easily exploited and weak? And in your own words you do not care. It seems to me that you are getting off on the idea of placing malevolent ideas in the minds of others, rather than ‘an intersting discussion.’ It is the pleasure you seek, That is your advantage!

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@RowanAmethyst

I don’t believe you’re a narcissist. Yes, I do feel your self-esteem is low.

Do you believe that you’re a masochist?