Someone on the internet said that it is mean to challenge another person’s belief in religion. God gave us minds to use. What is mean is telling children that if they don’t act right they will go to hell - they will suffer intolerable pain and torment for eternity. No one deserves that, except for maybe Adolph Hitler and Joseph Stalin.
Each of us have free will. We listen, and choose what to believe. That’s all about it. I disagree with the teaching of eternal fire or hell.
It would be nice to be able to believe in an all loving God that showered us with blessings, but so many horrible things happen that I can’t bring myself to worship and praise an all powerful being who would allow such things to exist. When I say “horrible things” I mean horrible beyond comprehension - like someone getting third degree burns over eighty per cent of his body, and living - or the Nazies seeing how many times they could break the leg of a Jewish child and reset it. There is no redeeming aspect to such occurances, and these things happen more often than most of us like to think.
You raised a good question. The explanation can only be found in the Bible.
Let me share with you the following:
[quote]WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS
“The Evil One controls the whole world.”—1 John 5:19.
“The Son of God came . . . to destroy the devil’s work.”—1 John 3:8, New Century Version.
WHAT THAT CAN MEAN FOR YOU
• Logical explanations for the world’s problems.—Revelation 12:12.
Satan controlling the world’s politics, military, religions, and people
• Reason to believe that our world will change for the better.—1 John 2:17.
That does explain a lot, but if God is stronger than Satan then it is still God’s responsibility to stop the evil Satan does. If I’m walking down the street, and I see an eight year old beating up a four year old I am obligated to stop it. Evil things can only happen if God allows it. If it is in God’s power to remove evil and he doesn’t do it he is at least partly responsible for the evil. All kinds of evil things are still happening in the world.
Depends on the context , if someone is using their belief to spread fear , and control which harms , isolates and ostracises people that are outside of the flock. Then its not mean. Such people deserve ridicule. Me personally its someone elses job to do the ridiculing but im thankful that i live in a secular democracy and the more capable can stand up for people like me.
Those are things to be grateful for - that we live in a secular democracy, and that more powerful people stand up for people like us.
I agree that using God as form of punishment doesn’t do anyone any good.
Maybe look at it this way. God like any parent, will make mistakes. Humans are complicated. We have free will and the right to make choices that may not be in our best interest. All anyone can do is show the way… it’s up to the individual if they want to follow or not.
It is one of the tenets of most Christian religion that God is perfect, infallible, and omnipotent. A God who makes mistakes doesn’t fit in most Christian religion. It is because is supposed to have these attributes that I hold him responsible for most of the horrors that occur on earth.
Right. Christians, and there are many, many different kinds, worship a Holy YHWH.
And to top that off, look at the book The Science of Evil: On Empathy and the Origins of Cruelty. (I am not an atheist; I am an individual struggling with my faith—) This whole book is a slam to the sin concept. Empathetic circuitry in our encephalic regions are the basis of how we react and act. Still, I search YHWH for a reason for this—because I have studied and studied His Word.
Why cruelty and suffering? I can say this, if you accept a challenge from me, human suffering is different from Yeshua’s suffering on the Cross. All of the book of Isaiah discusses this, all of the (400+) prophecies of Yeshua’s birth, crucifiction, resurrection. And, those who follow Yeshua as His sheep are to lean on Him for provisions, whether that be health, shelter, etc., This means psychologically too, when we consider mankinds suffering.
I read about this near death experience where this guy said that God experiences every last bit of all the suffering on earth. That makes me feel a little better, but why does there have to be any suffering at all? The standard answer for many Christians if that there must be suffering before we can know what bliss is. I don’t buy this. I don’t have to eat a lemon to know that chocolate is sweet. From what I’ve seen about many near death experiences on the internet when we die we experience such bliss that all the suffering doesn’t matter. Before the fundamentalist Christians got into the act ninety per cent of the near death experiences on the internet were blissful. These “Christians” have flooded the internet with hellish near death experiences, trying to instill a fear of hell in us all.
I am not sure what type of Christians would say that as you have stated. It is completely not Scriptural to say humans suffer so they may understand bliss.
I don’t like it one bit, all the suffering. I search on my own for answers and I always credit those I feel changed the world for others.
If you have ever read Persecution Studies, those folks often suffer from oppression in some form and also face persecution with a set face as to not complain to YHWH that they are persecuted.
It seems you are stuck in a position where you want god to be real so you can blame him. Isnt it alot more reasonable to say he is not responsible because he doesnt exist. There is a wealth of evidence that all documented religions are fabricated , yet your construct is; that he is real, yet chooses to do nothing? Its an attitutude that can only bring heartache
My reason for a belief in God is a modified argument from design. The Christian theologian C.S. Lewis used the metaphor of a man walking in the woods, and he comes upon a patch of ground that looks cultivated - almost like a garden. There is no sign of the cultivator around, but the patch of ground looks cultivated enough that there must be a hand somewhere that planted this patch. That is the only conclusion he can reach. The universe follows the laws of physics, astronomy, and mathematics. There is an order to it that indicates there is a hand behind it. That hand is the hand of God. I choose not to worship God, though, because he permits so many horrible things to happen when he could effortlessly stop them.
So if I’m deemed harmful because I think for myself, and I don’t go along with a group or agree with someone elses beliefs,
then I deserve to be ridiculed?
Not in my book.
I would of course, be appreciative of being ostracized, rather than being forced to belong to a group I have nothing in common with.
Not that you would do it, you say, but you’d be okay with standing around doing nothing while warching someone else do the ridiculing?
Cluck, cluck, cluck…
that’s the other reason I refuse to join a church.
I wouldn’t want these peoples protection, because when the time comes that they decide you’re now on the other side of the fence, who do you think is going to protect you from them? Not all those people you stood around and watched.
That’s another good reason to be independant enough to stand on your own two feet and think for yourself…which is against many churches teachings…
Sheep can’t think for themselves, or you wouldn’t be in a flock.
Yeah i heard this argument before and it has long since being challenged. Theres a similar story about a traveller coming across a watch , order is not reason to believe , there could be a multitude of disorder and failed atempts at order , but we are essentially chemical compounds , which could only exist in an ordered universe. Philosophically, the concept of ‘order’ and ‘design’ has long being taken to task.
God created man with a mind and free will. I think he is just testing us to see who will attempt to use that mind and free will to aleviate suffering so he knows who to hand pick to advance to **[insert whatever you choose to call"heaven" here]. Those who do nothing, get another ticket to ride as a human on this earth for a chance to try again, but this time they trade down, and are the one suffering.
It looks like you have totally misread what i was saying. Read it again . My post was a response to people saying it was mean to criticise religion. And my point was that religious people that spread fear and control should be ridiculed. Sounds fair.
Your explanation sounds fair,
but after re-reading your post again, it still reads the same.
Not sure where the misinterpretation lies, but, I will agree with your explanation for the sake of agreeing.
You dont need to agree with me. I was not saying that all people who are religeous should be ridiculed , that would be cruel. Just the kind that spread hell and damnation , etc. My mother goes to church and it has a possitive effect on her life , but had it a negative effect then that would not be cool. This guy crimby , in my opinion has a construct of god that has a very particular context : that god does nothing in the face of evil .
Now Because there will always be negative events in the world , it seems that Gods lack of action will be ever present in his life. Which is just a huge waste of his time.