Religious Delusions (Psychiatrist beliefs)

Not intended to be a religious debate, but rather, goes to show what exactly religious delusions are thought to be. Some of it is scary actually…taken from Wikipedia:

Some psychologists, beginning with Sigmund Freud, have characterized all or nearly all religion as delusion. Other psychologists focus on solely pathological cases, such as those involving schizophrenia.

How come schizophrenia is singled out? Does this mean if someone diagnosed SZ believes in religious things they are delusional?

In a 2010 study, religious delusions were found with themes of spiritual persecution by malevolent spirit-entities, control exerted over the person by spirit-entities, delusional experience of sin and guilt, or delusions of grandeur.[3] Individuals experiencing religious delusions are preoccupied with religious subjects that are not within the expected beliefs for an individual’s background, including culture, education, and known experiences of religion.

Of the things mentioned in the list I think only delusions of grandeur are most problematic…people who think they are Jesus, or a prophet out to save the world…those who believe they are called by a spirit or god to start a cult - especially the dangerous suicide and sex cults that have made the news several times since the 1960s.
As for the others, it can happen for real, but people can also go to extremes and be paranoid about such things. I’ve known a few people believed they were actual characters from the Book of Revelation…that is delusional BUT an evil spirit might have given them those ideas…mainly they believed they were one of the 2 witnesses, or the scarlet woman of Babylon.

The second part I highly question…many people come from a culture that emphasizes a certain religion but convert to something else. I suppose I’d have experienced several religious delusions because I was born into a Christian family (Christian in name, not so much by practice), yet I explored, studied, even practiced numerous paths…several occult paths, Native American, Buddhism, Faerie, Alien, as well as becoming a born again Christian which was a bit ‘too much’ or far fetched according to my Mom.

In a 1937 essay, Sigmund Freud stated that he considered believing in a single god to be a delusion,[1] extending his comments in 1907 that religion is the indication of obsessional neurosis.[6][7] His thoughts defining “delusion” perhaps crystallized from the notion of the religion formulations of the common man (circa 1927) as "patently infantile, foreign to reality

Gee, that’s nice…considering Freud is one of the infamous originators of modern day psychology.
Infantile? Palease !

Within the psychiatric community religious auditory hallucination is qualified by some as, those that hear the voice of God talking to them are experiencing schizophrenia, while those that instead talk to God but hear no response, i.e. pray do not.

What this really means is it’s ok to talk to an imaginary being because Grandfather Freud said God isn’t real anyways, but if you hear God you’re SZ because since God isn’t real if you think God has spoken to you, you’re delusional. Strangely, the Bible and just about every other religious book of the major religions records people hearing Gods voice audibly.

It is for these reasons I have stood up to a couple of psychologists and told them their insinuations are bordering on violating my first amendment religious freedom rights.

As long as some one isn’t going around saying they are Jesus, committing illegal acts or self harm because they think a spirit is telling them to, there really isn’t a big problem.

1 Like

maybe a quiet belief in a god is still a delusion but believing you are being eaten from the inside out by satans hatred is more problematic for society.

3 Likes

That isn’t good all the way around… especially if someone acts on such beliefs like taking out Satans hatred on others. Even if it’s inner personalized it isn’t good and can lead to major depression, suicidal thinking, etc. If it’s real the demon must be cast out and bound in Jesus name, if it’s just delusional, people need to think on positive things instead of devilish hate and darkness.

that was just an example of a belief a delusional belief a schizophrenic might have.

Or believing demons are inside ones body and thinking they must be puked up… or causing them to shake so violently that there family members think they are insane.

Or that God is in control of one’s gas pedal in there car causing them to zoom through red traffic lights…

^ real life examples.

it’s may be the hyper religiosity and the ability to manafest it psychologically that can make one a danger to society.

1 Like

I was once at a church ,

and the leader preacher guy told me ,

that he was goinG to cast out my demons ,

there was two of them standing in front of me ,

I thought “yep this is going to be weird.” ,

so the leader preacher got in my face and started an outloud prayer ,

his breath was pillowing into my face ,

all the while the other preacher was gripping tightly to my shoulder ,

the preacher was something lyke ,

“DEAR LORD TAKE OUT HIS DEMONS!!!” = Preacher ,

it went on and on and on ,

that tite grip had me worried ,

so I closed my eyes and felt the preachers breath ,

while I was jus waiting for them to finish ,

they finally finished and I found stupid humor in it ,

so I was lyke “THANKS PREACHER MAN THANKS I FEEL BETTER ALREADY!!” ,

the preacher was lyke ,

“YEP IM THE BEST” ,

and the ending to such a storye is thus ,

don’t go to church’s ,

I never went to a church since …

4 Likes

Most of the early psychology theorists behaved like cult leaders. Freud had some good ideas, but I still think he was a big mistake.

1 Like

Hi ,
Religion is classed as a delusion probably because it can be unhelpful to people with schiz. Delusions in schiz to my mind are when someone has a strong , extreme , emersive and compulsive belief in something that is unevidenced and usually this belief does not stand up to rational scrutiny. I suppose in schiz, sufferers tend to take matters to the extreme , be it religion or any other ‘belief’. Also Freud probably classified such beliefs as delusional out of necessity , and that was because both his methods and rational discourse had little or no effect on people suffering psychosis. He probably thought that an unequivocal classification made things much simpler to all concerned

Freud worked best when he went against his own rules.

My psychiatrist has religious delusions. I mean it’s fine to be a deist, but theism? He thinks if he prays to his God, it (s/he)? will turn his homosexual sister straight (!) That is comical.

It actually might work. I won’t even look at it from a prayer angle, though I certainly believe prayer works.
Just that ENERGY, INTENT and WILL being unleashed all the time and directed at the object of his prayer can also have an effect…BELIEVING it will happen by faith…

LOL…breath mints should be a requirement for all preachers!
I’ve had a few try that and they believe God will knock you down, called ‘slain in the spirit’…usually your eyes are closed and the preacher pushes you slightly so you lose balance. I’ve seen some pushy preachers like that. Some people might fall simply because the preachers breath is so bad…

Yup, cup the ears brother, that’s sure to offset balance

Notice they have 'catchers?" In the Bible if people fell down it was purely by the Spirit, not people cupping ears, pushing, or having catchers…

I don’t discount the phenomenon by any means…happened to me on top a mountain and the Spirit was so strong I fell strait to my knees like someone has swooped my legs out from under me…but I WAS ALONE…

Yeah, that isn’t God…only thing I was told to do in traffic was to slow down and move over because cops were coming behind me…TWICE in a month, and both times there ended up being cops that came up then went by…so God told me to obey the speed limit, not break traffic laws…yes, also helped me avoid a potential ticket, but point is I was being told to slow down…

Interesting. If it can work, I guess I will have to start praying myself, for his sister to be happy just as she is and not have to turn straight.

take care!

Strangely in the list of sexual sins in the Old Testement, Leviticus 18 it does NOT mention women with women…
The list is pretty descriptive and mentions as sins:
Incest with family members or inlaws, (verses 6 - 16 list which family members are forbidden)
A mother and daughter at the same time
relations with a woman on her period,
Adultery…neighbors wife.
Man with man (verse 22: Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.)
Beastiality: both man and woman with animals… (verse 23: Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.)

Missing is something like “woman shall not approach woman to lie down with her”

However, much later the apostle Paul mentions a rather vaguely stated reference in Romans 1:26 - 27

“For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature.
And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men, working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense for their error which was meet”

He is very clear about men with men, just as Leviticus’ much older law states, but his mention of women leaving the ‘natural use’ is rather vague.
Here is an interesting discussion of the matter

I am not gay and don’t believe in it, but I also see clearly the condemnation of women with women appears lacking in the Bible. The verse may very well refer to women doing forbidden acts with men, beasts, or whatever…and I think it all goes back to the importance of the seed being the thing that starts life, and what one does with it…

And I don’t want this to get into any kind of homosexual debate, just stating what scripture does and does not say…and leave it at that.

Thanks for sharing, e_lunaseer, interesting stuff.

This is truly crazy.

I know someone who has this who thinks it is a gift from god. Not healthy.

To simply accept something without fully questioning it, thus simply believing in it, is dangerous. Even Sigmund Freud drew his conclusions without fully questioning them, thus he too practiced dangerous beliefs.

To make things worse, people, as you say, think that truth is unidirectional. Thus it is accepted that you are a sane person if you talk to a God, that’s one direction, but if you claim that God is talking to you, thus the other direction, then it is considered to be an act which is only performed by an insane mind.

Thus it is currently accepted by the masses, that certain truths are unidirectional. Why?

There is absolutely no logic to this.

Some religious folk may encounter others whom are dying of starvation, etc. In turn they often will do nothing but pray for the others, rather than take true action to help them.

However, if one of these religious folk ended up in a hospital with cancer and the doc said that he dropped the idea of performing an operation that had a 90% chance of saving their life, and did so to respect the persons belief that praying was all that was required rather than taking action, the person will go nuts.

Thus they believe that it is OK to just pray for others, but it is not OK for others to just pray for them.

Thus we are right back to unidirectional thinking.

By just praying, they do not have to donate any of their money or time, to help others. Thus there is a financial gain, or time gain. Thus the purpose of this unidirectional thinking seems to be aimed toward personal benefits that are gained through directing cost to the others alone. Meaning, they claim to be helping, via prayer, but in truth, they are not. Thus, in their minds, all is well, even though it is not.

Thus unidirectional thinking is currently present in both religion and science.

Thus if one claims that God is talking to you, and you are therefore said to be delusional, this is purposely done for some personal gain of some kind. Meaning, “I’m off the hook sucker, …You have to deal with it.”.

And so it makes you wonder that on the grand scale of things, meaning taking the entirety of all reality into account, it does not seem to be occurring for no particular reason.

Everything is relative, thus there is both good and bad within this reality. Therefore, some folk, somehow, are being directed to take advantage of this by dumping the garbage upon others.

This act is also being maintained by the ongoing acceptance of unidirectional thinking.

1 Like

True, the unidirectional problem certainly exists. One of the biggest ones is as you mentioned. I have run into those type of people who say they are Christians who will gladly offer prayers for someone starving, in need of clothing, etc, but when it comes to actually helping the person by providing for them they refuse. One of the biggest excuse i hear is the ‘bum’ will use the money for alcohol or drugs. Some Christians do go so far as to actually give food or clothing, thus taking that extra step.

In some of my encounters there have been a very few Christians who say give the money and it is up to the person receiving the money what they do with it. If you KNOW they are going to buy drugs or alcohol then don’t, but if it’s just money, then it is not your fault what they do with it…

James 2:15 - 17
If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

God talks to me every day. I receive messages from Him every day out of Catholic prayer books and He talks directly to me personally. No kidding! And, He’s been doing it since the year 2004, when I started catechism for adults. I have everything so far, documented in notebooks. I am passing these notebooks on to my niece when I die. I’ve already told her about them, so, she’s aware of their existence. My priest knows God talks to me. My pdoc and my nurses know. My nurses believe in me. I really don’t know what my pdoc thinks, but, he doesn’t argue with me. Ever. He’s Hindu and he’s already told me that he has read up on the Catholic religion to better inform himself on what is going on with me. That doesn’t sound like an unbeliever to me. The reason why I’m on a lot of psych medication is because I’m very prone to paranoia, delusions and depression, and I need treatment for those three things. But, I really don’t believe my communications from God are a delusion. God has told me that the reason why He has chosen to communicate with me is because I have suffered a very tragic life, my whole life, and He empathizes with those who have suffered like He has.

You are so, so right. It takes much more than just a simple “belief that Jesus died on the cross for your sin’s” to make it to heaven. It takes holy actions and holy thought too. Jesus Christ was an ACTION man.

1 Like

Actions by faith, and an ongoing belief and faith daily…not what lots of people do and say 'Oh yeah, i believe Jesus died on the cross for my sins…" That’s just a starting point…

If he’s Hindu and familiar with his own religious texts he should already understand…unless he is just Hindu because his family is and he hasn’t really practiced or studied the faith…

Not a delusion and it sounds like it helps. And God does chose many of the downtrodden of the world…

1 Corithians 1:26 - 29

For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
That no flesh should glory in his presence.

This is why atheists and unbelievers have such a problem with people who believe and practice this spiritual path. they claim to be wise with the ‘wisdom of the world’ and think we are foolish…but God takes the things they think foolish to confound the those wise in worldly ways…

Thank you very much for taking the time to read what I wrote, and commenting so eloquently.

1 Like