Hi to all!

Hello to all. I’m not a patient and I not have acquaintances suffering from schizophrenia. Doing research about nootrope substances, improvement of cognition and memory, I found myself also study the treatment of anxiety, depression and schizophrenia, so sometimes I read a few pages of your forum. I am pleased that you read and posted research and do very well, do not give up! I realize that drug treatment of this condition has come a long way since they were first introduced antipsychotics, but in recent years we also experience that some of the medical substances of “traditional” would consider “alternatives”, as theanine and sarcosine … eventually substances, which are taken from plants or made in the laboratory, are simply substances, the important thing is to take effect and to be studied experimentally. I also discovered some theories without scientific basis and interpretation errors that cause very big nonsense that medicine is still, but not affecting mainly schizophrenics, unless they make use of SSRIs (no conspiracy theory here, but it is undeniable that there are errors, huge).

That said, what am I doing here? I had hundreds of saved searches on my notebook that it was stolen and I would like to rearrange the ideas and write down on paper the information I have been most impressed so as not to lose them forever. Then I thought this (small) collection of substances (additional and not), accompanied by the studies where possible, could be useful to someone to talk with your doctor to assess their use. Many things will be extra-known to you the forum, but does nothing, if it will only be useless in a topic more in the web.

Unfortunately, the message does not make sense without links to studies , but being new I can not put links , I want to know after how many messages can I insert links?

I’m confused. Sorry I can’t help.

Hi - I’m not sure of the exact number of days/activity here for this - but It hink if you come every day and participate as a regular user by reading messages and posting messages, etc. - I think in a week or so you might be able to post links.

Cloud storage yo!

What do you think of nootropics? I think it’s a crock of ■■■■, but I’ve never really taken any of them, aside from one dose of alphabrain. Most of the sarcosine people on here say that effectiveness drops after a while and then they normalize.

I think expanding the capacities of the brain can be done, but it’s more of a hands on process where you have to train it to do certain things. Human calculators and what not. There are tricks. Potential learned creativity.

I used to take adderal, and I know I felt smarter, sharper, less inhibited, more focused, quicker, But that is basically controlled speed and a totally different kind of substance than supplements. There is also a high involved. Like inducing a manic state where any down time makes you anxious. Not a good route unless properly prescribed to those people who legitimately need it(which is typically for ADD ADHD and not just so people can get “cracked” out).

Anyways adderal and pot pretty much set the stage for my SZ to shows its ugly face.

I see nootropics as a fad and a money making scheme. Even if they weren’t I wouldn’t want to be taking any supplements just to maintain a higher level of functionality.

You’re actually researching the stuff though. I’d like to know what you’ve found.

I’m not a fan of nootropics most common. The fact is that I am very careful with regard to side effects and the long-term sustainability, the impact on the quality of life of a substance, just find something that does not seem okay, the rule, I am very conservative. I have not tried many substances, and I think it’s worth using a nootropic when you know its mechanism of action and you are aware of what is going to change, or at least when they were made due investigation for possible side effects ( primarily about any emotional implications, ie anxiety / depression, impact on sleep, fertility, health, cancer) or in any case they are substances used for many years. Also many people seem too fanatical about the nootropics, reading the forum longecity I have the impression that many try to “get high” rather than finding a substance that helps them cognitively, or at best look for the ‘magic pill’. For example, exclude all racetam (except one) for several reasons: first of all no one knows how they work; second, probably they interact with the glutamate system in a way that does not convince me, but the glutamate system is delicate, especially because it is implicated in anxiety disorders, depression, bipolar, schizophrenia, and you have to fix it if you know what you ago, coincidentally the racetam can unmask these disorders in those who are at risk, there are also other substances to modulate the glutamate system that I consider more sustainable; I have the impression that their effectiveness is overrated and has not been proven effective, not to mention the side effects, if you take a ride on various forums you’ll notice that all those who use them have brain fog and headaches … then what do I need a nootropic if not let me study or to be productive? Just to convince me to be smarter? I would try one of these substances only if it would be worth, but none has become a genius taking piracetam, not at all, then exclude them.

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My idea of ​​nootropic and cognitive improvement is very different, but do not invent anything, it’s all based on the research. If you want to improve your intelligence, your ability to learn, or your productivity, you must first remove the one that is not good; for example, suffer from anxiety? depression? Well, it is useless to take nootropics without knowing what you’re doing, emotional disorders burn your cognitive abilities (not only “philosophy”, the studies say, and why, that you know the reason why this is biologically) . After resolving those improves your lifestyle, even without knowing the reason, you do not need a scientist to know that the good old work purposes, I refer to rest well, exercising and eating healthy. Obviously all these things are connected, for a nootropic it can also be a substance that improves the rest, or that manages anxiety without having effects on memory. If I do not sleep, I eat like a pig and drink alcohol, which is the point of thinking about piracetam, not do you any good, you’ll get far more benefits by improving your lifestyle.

You mentioned amphetamines, I would not take them for anything in the world, and I do not think they are absolutely the most effective solution for the treatment of attention deficit. Careful here, do not take me for one of those who are against drugs and natural products like XD. I consider all of the substances in the same way, natural or synthetic, but I wonder, what theory is behind it? there may be more effective treatments? what are the side effects? the results are only short-term or long-term? Also often we tend to consider a substance hoping that the face of miracles, but the body does not work that way. Hardly a single gene has marked effects regarding any aspect, be it cognitive or health concerns. There is an intelligence gene or a gene lifespan. it is true, some (few) have a greater impact than others, but often you have to look at their interaction to predict the effects. Then it is said that a single drug provide the desired effect, in fact, to get the benefits you will use high doses and then there will be more side effects. Before turning to drugs, why not look at the shortcomings? The fanatics of nootropics take at least the minimum recommended vitamins and minerals? Well sometimes cost more vitamins than taking a pill, then you tend to think more about the single most effective treatment, rather than boundary and I understand that. However in the case of amphetamines I do not think that they are effective and sustainable in the long term. Their mechanism of action does not convince me at all. Does not convince me, and because the studies indicate that the long-term are not very effective, and it is because before you know what they were amphetamines, I knew quite well the mechanisms of stress, and all the consequences that it brings, how it works the dopamine system, and why it is better to leave him alone, and consider it as a last resort. You know how the stress? It works like amphetamines. There is a very common test that is performed on mice in the laboratory, is called “social defeat”, in practice the conditions are created for a small mouse defenseless being subjected to a big mouse, it can be done only once or long term. Well, the effect on the brain in this test is the same as what you get with amphetamines, so much so that in a mouse under test becomes tolerant to amphetamines as if he had made use (this is called cross tolerance), and comes into play only the dopamine system, but also glutamate, cortisol, CRF and many others.

I think it is the best way to combine the already simple substances that have a very small effect, together cognitive workout. We used to believe that certain skills are innate … it is not so. Except in rare cases (which I thoroughly studied but that are impossible to replicate exactly) skills are not innate, there are certainly differences, and these differences can be smooth with the use of certain substances, but iron out these differences do not need to nothing if you’re lying on the couch all day, the difference is the training (in this case cognitive). People are looking for the magic pill, but do not realize they have it already.

You know what the first nootropic to use? what the best benefit / side effects and the best benefit / cost? and that makes the difference more than the others?
Physical activity! Already taken alone improves cognitive abilities, but not all. Many speak of the time window that is when you are young, because when you are young cognitive function are more malleable … except that the brain is plastic in adulthood, but by the way not everyone knows that with the 'aerobic exercise are released many substances such as to return the brain of an adult to a state of plasticity comparable to that of a child. But the interesting thing is what we can do for this plasticity … if you do a workout targeted to a certain type of cognitive ability in adulthood, there are people from seeing, but are reduced, but if the associate physical activity results doubled!

Oh my God, what I wrote XD I had not noticed. Excuse me: D

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Good advice at the end there.

Unfortunately with a lot psychiatric meds the effects are found accidentally and the theory comes later. With better theory comes better drugs, but in most cases it starts from a synergistic correlation.

I also feel more inclined to be a brain naturalist than a brain enhancer. Wasn’t always the case.

Meanwhile, I tell you that if you make use of Adderall or other dopamine, you better use uridine, n-acetyl cysteine, and possibly zinc and magnesium … are substances that not only diminish the negative effects of amphetamines, but are also nootropics ( surely many do not see them as such, but for what I mean by nootropic is, are). These substances decrease the excessive glutamate, which is involved in the development of tolerance and in other negative effects of amphetamines. Use omega-3?

There are various problems with amphetamines. First you I have already spoken, is in practice a stress to the body and to the brain. In addition, the dopamine system is a delicate system, which in my opinion should not be teased, or otherwise as little as possible. Of course if you are going to use a dopaminergic, best done at a very low dose and long-term, rather than once in a while in large doses, which only leads to abuse. But amphetamines although they may have positive effects temporary, increase dopamine in the brain places where they should not … the nucleus accumbens is not just a “pleasure center”, as I have already said during stress there is a release of dopamine in the same areas involved with the use of amphetamines, also creates a single dose of the effects difficult to delete, for example the increase in CREB in the nucleus accumbens cause anhedonia and depression (although the same molecule in other parts of the brain can have a positive effect), they are mechanisms that still do not understand thoroughly. As I mentioned before also the dopamine system is delicate, it is composed of pre-synaptic receptors and postsynaptic receptors finely balanced. The tolerance and what is defined as sensitization, depend on various factors, among these is the reduction of pre-synaptic receptors and / or the increase in postsynaptic receptors of type D2, (of course there is much more than in this and I’m trying to make it easy), the fact is that to change this balance leads to personality changes and raises the risk of psychosis, depression, induction of bipolar disorder etc. Also from animal studies it is clear that to change this balance (stress, amphetamines, cocaine and other drugs) and creates hyperactivity disorders of cognition. There are many studies on this. If you take a mouse and eliminate the dopamine transporter (in fact increasing dopamine in the striatum and nucleus accumbens), get a mouse with hyperactive and cognitive deficits. Sure amphetamines increase dopamine in other areas, but they are dangerous and I think worsened the skills cogitive instead increase them. Also, when using these substances we are talking about systems where the number of receptors dinimuiscono very quickly, so it’s easy to develop tolerance. There would in theory escamotages, but more than escamotages that allow the use of these substances, I see them as alternatives, which may also help to stop using these substances in my opinion unnecessary.

I can’t read bulk messages please break up your paragraphs

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We have so many chemicals in us already and that’s why detox is so important.

I eat clams, drink green tea with lemon juice, and do a super foods powder in smoothie every day.

That said, psych meds are the only proof we have and need to continue.

I understand you , as I said I’m not against drugs , when I talked about alternative was to give an example , depends on the needs . However, I would prefer to use drugs milder , maybe even more than one in combination rather than use one powerful . However those substances which I indicated should boost the effects of amphetamines regarding ADD / ADHD and make them more usable in time , I think it will reduce ( significantly ) the feeling of being "high " (and , as I said , to reduce neurotoxic effects ) . As a general guideline however avoid substances that increase glutamate , because it is already released in large quantities with amphetamines . You can start by taking n - acetyl - cysteine ​​, alone already I believe can help a lot .

For all medications it will sooner or later a certain degree of tolerance (but not necessarily be comprehensive and that we return to the initial level, while it may seem), and I see basically two ways to approach the problem:

  1. continuing with the dosage that I established, hoping that if I started from a level of 100, and at the beginning the substance made me get to 150, with the development of tolerance rather than return to 100 to 120. I steadied I think it is stupid as an approach, but it is possible that the tolerance to take me back to 100 and then the use was unnecessary. This depends on the characteristics of the drug used.

  2. in the case of direct agonist tolerance development could be strong, get me back to 100 (it is not said, I’m just assuming). Then I could use a little trick, which until now has been tested with the opioid receptors and cannabinoid, using ultra low doses of an antagonist substance that prevents the development of tolerance. Search ultra low dose naltrexone to understand what I’m talking about.

Exclude the dose increase indefinitely, it is an unhealthy way of thinking about drugs.

The point (1) I consider it interesting anyway. If we think of a drug as a substance that can change our genes (and in a sense it is), you will understand why. Then we say that there are two persons A and B. A has x version of a gene, eproduce 100 of substance B has version y and produces 50. A has more memory than B. So I want to bring the level of A and B use a drug that leads me the level of the substance to 100. Since the level of substance B is 50, the port when the substance 100, the perceived level B to level acute will be 120, because it will have many receptors, then the organism gets used and the perceived level will be equal to the actual, or 100. I think this is possible, I do not think that the body gets used to the dosage back to 50. But I believe that people, remembering the perceived effect initially (to 120), then when this drops to 100 “believe” to be back to 50, but do not realize that they are actually better than before. The reasoning behind the use of amphetamines is more or less than this, and it is shared, the problem is that they (in my opinion) are “too”. It is like killing a mosquito with a bazooka.

But it can happen that the body back to 50? It depends on the type of substance and the amount sopratturro. And keep low doses is very important. Up to a certain point the organism can manage the quantity and does not lower too much the number of receptors, but when the substance is too much the number of receptors is lowered and the body takes a long time to recover. To understand this concept can refer to two examples, that of chemical castration is fantastic. How is it done? It takes a drug that stimulates the production of hormones, and you give a dose so high that the body reaisce removing all the receptors, so it can no longer respond to the substance. Another example is melatonin: when taken at doses above 1mg ago effect the first time that the grab, after which it stops working, using it instead at doses of 0.3 mg can be used every night without developing tolerance. The secret to making a substance sustainable over time is not to abuse it, and be content to get small results.

The point is not to use doses from body-builder, but use doses that I can reach the highest levels within the physiological norm.

What the hell I just listen to my doc.

Sorry I did not understand the meaning. However I do not write to replace doctors, God forbid, it is obvious that you have to trust them! But I have a different view about some things.

Sweetie I’m not sure what you’re trying to do here we are mainly pro meds here been down the endless road of no relief.

I welcome discussion but I hope you will see our views too.

If anything he is dissuading us from using nootropics.

For further consultation please see Not Moses.

ah now I understand . I’m not against drugs , anything . In fact I was not inviting anyone off medication , or not to follow the advice of your doctor . Indeed , as I wrote , I am of the opinion that it is useful to use more than one drug to keep low doses and profitable in the long term . I wrote quickly, and you , I wrote TOO , among other things , helping me with a translator . In fact, my advice was not " you should not use drugs " ( although I am opposed to the use of amphetamines , and I would use other types of drugs ) , but rather to use something else to limit its negative effects , for example, between those who I mentioned I could add memantine (which is not a natural substance ) but I think it’s hard to get if you do not suffer from Alzheimer’s . I joined just to write what I know and that I think can be useful to someone , not to annoy or convince you to do something :wink:

to be precise are not against the use of nootropics. I am against the use of racetam. The only racetam would try (but need a prescription), it is levetiracetam. Someone would ask, but how would you use not piracetam that is quieter and instead levetiracetam you? I think that even if the levetiracetam seems to have more side effects, is the most studied, has been used for many years by many more people at doses much higher than I would use. Levetiracetam increases slow wave sleep (sleep nootropic is the number 1 to be considered, the number 2 is aerobic exercise), also recent studies are promising in the treatment of Alzheimer’s.

Alphabrain contains Huperzine-A, which increases acetylcholine, it is an excellent nootropic but can cause melancholy and lead to depression in those who are at risk, but certainly enhances memory. Alpha-GPC is a precursor of acetylcholine, but I think that the nootropic effect of this substance is not due only to the increase of acetylcholine. Bacopa Monniera not would hire him because I’m not sure of the net effect on serotonin and its implications (increase serotonin is bad in 90% of people).

You could use use omega-3 + uridine + alpha-gpc.
A great base is:

sarcosine (co-agonist glutamate). + Uridine (reduces the release of glutamate) and improves sleep. + Theanine. + N-acetylcysteine. + Omega-3. + Alpha-gpc

As for prescription drugs would be interesting to use mirtazapine, I think the best existing drug to improve sleep and it also has a beneficial effect on memory. Manages to increase the slow wave sleep (which is the real restful sleep and that has more benefits on memory) without reducing that rem, other antihistamine instead increase the slow wave sleep but unfortunately falls too rem (which still serves)

thought i would say hi.
take care :alien: