Mega Post: summary of research and treatments (some would say alternative ... but no)

Medications
1

Hello to all. I’m not a patient and I not have acquaintances suffering from schizophrenia. Doing research about nootrope substances, improvement of cognition and memory, I found myself also study the treatment of anxiety, depression and schizophrenia, so sometimes I read a few pages of your forum. I am pleased that you read and posted research and do very well, do not give up! I realize that drug treatment of this condition has come a long way since they were first introduced antipsychotics, but in recent years we also experience that some of the medical substances of “traditional” would consider “alternatives”, as theanine and sarcosine … eventually substances, which are taken from plants or made in the laboratory, are simply substances, the important thing is to take effect and to be studied experimentally. I also discovered some theories without scientific basis and interpretation errors that cause very big nonsense that medicine is still, but not affecting mainly schizophrenics, unless they make use of SSRIs (no conspiracy theory here, but it is undeniable that there are errors, huge).

That said, what am I doing here? I had hundreds of saved searches on my notebook that it was stolen and I would like to rearrange the ideas and write down on paper the information I have been most impressed so as not to lose them forever. Then I thought this (small) collection of substances (additional and not), accompanied by the studies where possible, could be useful to someone to talk with your doctor to assess their use. Many things will be extra-known to you the forum, but does nothing, if it will only be useless in a topic more in the web.

A final consideration: some of the substances that report here does not mean that it is devoid of side effects, even if they do not carry a full description and even if they are sold freely and / or are extracted from plants, then you would do well not only to consult with the doctor but also to do the necessary research on your own, because it is very likely that the doctors do not know anything about it.

Tryptophan metabolism
I will not dwell on the theoretical aspects, the reader will already know the forum that serotonin is involved in schizophrenia and other conditions (although in reality, for other conditions, serotonin has a role different from the widespread belief that is completely meaningless ), the fact is that you should take supplements of tryptophan, trying instead to modulate its metabolism. The main substances involved in schizophrenia are derived from the metabolism of tryptophan and is already difficult to control, go to increase the share of this amino acid can only complicate things (and more is not without side effects as you can think, at all). Also I remember a study that seems to confirm what was said:


Also it does not recommend (AND I DO I TAKE FULL RESPONSIBILITY) the use of SSRIs, whether they suffer from schizophrenia or depression (I do not pronounce on PTSD that is a different case yet and would be investigated, but I personally would not take it even in that case), the use of SSRIs is completely meaningless (deserves a separate discussion).
How to control the metabolism of tryptophan?
Theanine!

here are a couple of studies on schizophrenics


and other generic studies


There is also another substance that acts similarly and it is propolis, but being known as anti-inflammatory (see below for details) may have other side effects unknown.

Inflammation and Kynurenine pathway
The inflammation is linked to the metabolism of tryptophan (in reality everything is connected with everything, serotonin, dopamine, glutamate, inflammation, antioxidant) and has been amply demonstrated its connection with schizophrenia and other conditions, in particular as it regards indoleamine 2,3-dioxygenase, tryptophan 2,3-dioxygenase, PGE2, COX-2.






there is to be noted that cox-1 and cox-2 may have opposite effects on kynurenine, so you should be careful with the anti-inflammatory


The anti-inflammatory substances are many, and many are also those extracted from plants and free sale, but it is better not abuse it and do not mix different substances that have the same purpose. Also cox-1 and cox-2 have to do with the stomach and the blood thinning (ulcers and bleeding are side effects that you should check with the use of cox inhibitor).
The one I am most familiar is propolis, but there are no specific studies about the schizophrenia and not the council, so I would not recommend, also do not know its effects on the stomach and blood. Unfortunately, although promising, the use of anti-inflammatory in schizophrenics is yet to be assessed, so if you want to try, you should do so under strict medical supervision, even with the substance “natural”.



http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S0104-79302002000200002&script=sci_arttext

When it relates to prostaglandins it is another thing to consider: not all are pro-inflammatory. There is the fact that PGE 1 is anti-inflammatory and may be connected with schizophrenia:



although this study does not seem to bring benefits

For those interested in the dihomo-gammalinolenic acid is contained in the oil of borage (given the possible health benefits, I’d do a test), also PGE1 is sold by prescription, is used as a gastric protection (in fact inhibitors cox-1 cause ulcer since diminish this substance, and here notice the connection with the opposite effect that has the cox-1 and cox-2 on kynurenine) and as a drug by abortion (illegally).

We can not talk about oil, inflammation and schizophrenia without mention of omega-3! Omega-3 and schizophrenia have a long history, it is undeniable effectiveness of omega-3 not only in schizophrenia, but also in depression and cognitive improvement in healthy subjects. But there are important considerations to make, first of all on the type of omega-3 to use and then on any (oh yeah) side effects.
The omega-3 that are used (not sure if there are other types, I guess you) are DHA and EPA and have different actions. It was discovered that the effectiveness of the omega-3 in the depression is given by the proportion of EPA, and not, of DHA, whereby in Faulty cases it is preferable to use an integrator with a high EPA / DHA ratio, I read somewhere that the share of DHA might interfere but I’m not sure.


It seems that the EPA is the best also for schizophrenia


However the DHA is not useless, indeed, it is very helpful with regard to cognitive aspects.


http://www.dhaomega3.org/Cognitive-Performance/EPADHA-Supplementation-Found-to-Improve-Working-Memory-Function-in-Children-with-ADHD

You may then toggle integration periods with high EPA / DHA ratio in periods with supplements that have a more similar between the two.

The omega-3 are always claimed for the health benefits, there is a but. This “but” is not due to omega-3 itself, but the fact that by law must be added to antioxidants (because the omega-3 go rancid easily), the problem is that the antioxidant used in foods and in practice the only one that is used in the omega-3 is vitamin E. And then? You may wonder. Well, the vitamin E is not harmless, but strongly implicated in certain types of cancer, in particular prostate cancer, especially in combination with omega-3. Is not the only antioxidant that does this trick, also selenium is faithful companion of vitamin E.


I did not understand if all types of vitamin E have this effect or if one used is different from the naturally occurring in food (many vitamins are found in different forms).
A possible alternative is the use of krill oil, which naturally contains antioxidants (including vitamin E, but imagine a far much lower), but in this case do not think you can choose the desired amount of EPA and DHA.
Also point out that the ginger seems to be miraculous against prostate cancer

and it seems promising also bilberry

About inflammation. Very often I read that alternative medicine is recommended to use mega-doses of niacin. Well, in my opinion there is no scientific evidence that niacin is really useful (or even an alternative to antipsychotics), are also cautious in the use of mega-doses of vitamins, since those doses can become real drugs even with heavy side effects … there is indeed a link between niacin and metabolism of dopamine, so it is said, that it can be useful, but in my opinion should be studied for effectiveness and side effects. One thing you need to consider, however, if you use supplements of niacin (also bumps not so high), DO NOT USE THE NIACIN NORMAL, BUT ONLY THAT NO-FLUSH. The flush niacin is given you by prostagliandine inflammatory and therefore should be excluded in favor of the no-flush formulation.

Glutamate
Everyone knows that the symptoms of schizophrenia appear to remind those of a glutamate deficit, but not so simple. There are several glutamate receptor and glutamate also has different effects in different brain areas. I would like to point out that these studies indicate that in the early stages may be implicated excess glutamate and not the other, particularly in the hippocampus




What to do? First of all the aforementioned omega-3 have a very strong (beneficial) effect on the hippocampus and counteract the effects of glutamate on this, in fact the greatest benefits for depression are due precisely to this action.
Combine these to a substance called uridine has phenomenal effects, you will find a lot of information in the network, we place a few:




It also seems that this substance is naturally involved in sleep, so it might be useful to take it in the evening:

There is also another point where they cross schizophrenia and depression (actually always connected to the glutamate)



And there seems to be an excellent solution: the honokiol



Another substance (you already know) that also functions as an antagonist (indirect) glutamate is the N-acetylcysteine. In fact it is known as a precursor of glutathione. All antioxidants have to do with glutamate and with schizophrenia: in practice glutathione avoids the excessive accumulation of glutamate (which is pro-oxidant) and antioxidants increase the glutathione or play action equivalent. Not even with the antioxidants, however, need to exaggerate, for example with regard to the lifespan, they improve it up to a certain dose, but too many Grabbing it decreases and reverses. I do not know, however, doses, and do not know whether to use more than one may be doing wrong. The best seem to be the NAC, ALA (alpha lipoic acid), blueberries, ginger and PQQ, but the most studied for schizophrenia is undoubtedly the NAC.



I already mentioned the theanine, it also modulates glutamate receptors

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1271/bbb.66.2683

Another medical condition accompanied by hyperactivity in the hippocampus is Alzheimer’s and I would like to point out that lately it has been found that levetiracetam, known as anticonvulsant (high dose), at low doses reduces its hyperactivity and improving memory. This discovery has implications in schizophrenia and, although not yet been rated, I think it is likely that your doctor may consider a trial of this drug at those responsible doses.

Finally already you know the newcomer: sarcosine. Be careful to take too much:

Acetylcholine
You can use a supplement of choline. A stronger possibility is also a supplement that is called Huperzine A, (works such as drugs for Alzheimer’s by blocking the enzyme that degrades the acetyl choline and increasing memory) but is also an NMDA antagonist may therefore be detrimental to the schizophrenics , I have not the faintest idea (though it was not an NMDA antagonist should go cautious). One thing is certain: anything increases the acetylcholine is taken in the morning, as far as possible from when you go to bed, because during the day improves memory, but at night too high have the opposite effect on the consolidation of memory (and possibly even ruin the rest). You were also careful because it may cause depression and in each case the dosage of this nootropic should be kept as low as possible. I’ve never used.

Other nootropics
I would avoid all racetam. They have a mechanism of action unconvincing (among others touch on systems such as glutamate to be modulated with other substances, and I believe strongly that racetam are deleterious for both schizophrenics and for everyone else), little known The effects look good only on paper, and the side effects are much more numerous than bring back studies. The side effects make them unsuitable as nootopi. The only exception is that would levetiracetam, which has a different mechanism of action, although the side effects may be stronger (also depends on the dosage), but both may be used only under medical supervision, so the problem does not It arises.
Various vitamins and minerals


As regards the B12 AVOID ABSOLUTELY THE TYPE methyl-B12 (also to avoid other supplements with methyl groups and also the sam-e) because they decrease the GAD67 and cause psychosis. That is preferable to the 'adenosylcobalamin, can not remember the details but it seems to me is the only type that is well absorbed and has no side effects.

Pay attention to vitamin B6, it is dangerous. Do your research



It does not seem to serve

As regards the zinc does not know specific studies about the schizophrenia, but it is effective in depression and also makes acetylcholine receptors more responsive. At high doses, however, it is neurotoxic, then you kept low (30mg think are more than sufficient).

Nootropic is also known as magnesium L-threonate, but it costs a lot. However integrate with other magnesium can only do good. The second choice is magnesium citrate, but do not overdo it because it causes diarrhea.

Other hormones and supplements
You already know about the use of pregnenolone sulphate in low doses (50mg)




just a note for boys: being a hormone is converted to estrogen and these decrease fertility (LH and FSH) and testosterone, certainly not in a huge way as those who use anabolic steroids, but severely.
Ah, also pregnenolone sulphate increases acetylcholine in the hippocampus (which good thing).

Ever tried mirtazapine?
http://www.schizophrenia.com/sznews/archives/002889.html



http://www.schres-journal.com/article/S0920-9964(08)00547-1/abstract?cc=y=

Magnificent solutions at no cost
I note here other added at no cost to cognition, memory, the hippocampus, the schizophrenia, welfare: Aerobic training (3-4 times a week for at least 20 minutes, preferably between 20 to 40 minutes) and mindfulness meditation .
Both have countless studies behind, I report some.




http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/823506


http://pss.sagepub.com/content/early/2013/03/27/0956797612459659.abstract

And yet, for cognition there are various options, look on the Internet how to increase the working memory, you will definitely find an exercise that is called n-back or dual n-back, in fact it is not really a training of working memory but more executive function, although mistakenly passes for such, but is equally useful. Unfortunately the only program that I found to train working memory does not remember where I downloaded. Do not forget, however, that aerobic exercise doubles and generalize the effects of training cognitive, that without it is partially effective. No need to make a “dual” version that used single (especially at the beginning, then maybe add the dual) but make sure you work out with an exercise is “space” (the one with the square) with an exercise that audio- verbal (letters).
Other good solutions (perhaps even superior to workouts specifically) are video games to real-time strategy (like starcraft and age of empires) that improve various cognitive qualities including cognitive flexibility and I recently discovered another game that seems to improve 'executive, called cut the rope. Cognitive flexibility and executive function are two aspects. I would avoid for various reasons the war games and action, but I have neither the desire to go into these explanations, because not entirely clear.

Summing

I imagine that, as an aid to traditional therapy and always under medical supervision, is quite safe, easy and promising to use a combination of:

  • Sarcosine
  • NAC
  • Theanine
  • Uridine
  • Omega-3
  • Honokiol

And then maybe think of others

6 Likes
2

the best post i have ever read in his forum…keep on doing it…
hats off to you…
take care…

1 Like
3

some parts are unclear ( I helped with a translator ) , for example about tryptophan , the meaning was " not use tryptophan ." I hope it is understood

4

For those who believe that medications are The Answer, I suppose.

But you all know where I am coming from: Meds are just a means to stable enough to do the psychotherapy that truly remodels the emotion regulation system.

That said, I am fully aware that 98% of people want to take a pill to fix them (because they have been taught by the pill makers to believe the sweet siren song).

3 Likes
5

Your reasoning is not entirely correct, but I agree in part. Be sure you can do it by their own efforts, to be in control, it is a very good quality in life. But in some cases it can become a limit. And it is wrong (in my opinion) to push others to not make use of medicines, and is especially wrong to consider therapy as something completely different from the drugs. If you read the entire message, you will notice that I have appointed mindfulness meditation, and if you do not know, mindfulness is a practice used in therapy (for stress), then it is itself therapy. This is to say that I think the terapi helpful.

But you believe that the therapy functions in a different way by a drug? Therapy changes the brain chemistry, but that does not mean that you can always use it by itself, or that it is superior to drugs and that drugs are only an aid to therapy. Therapy and medication can have the same contribution, but there are conditions in which the therapy is very little, and drugs are the masters.

It is a two-way function: I improve the way I think <—> improves brain chemistry.

any disturbance depends on two things:

  1. genetic predisposition;
  2. environmental exposure to triggering events (summarized in the word stress)

Point 1 is not something “fixed”, there are always shades, and for this to one person may be neccessario use more medications, and others less.

The treatment acts on point 2: try to create a “external” favorable. In fact, depending on their genes therapy may be more or less effective, as well as according to their own genes depends on the amount of stress required to give birth to the disorder. And it is important to note some genes may protect against a disturbance, but in favor of another, and interact in many unexpected ways, there is still much research to be done.

In any case both drugs and therapy should be used (and please, use cognitive-behavioral therapies, REBT, schema therapy, not psychoanalysis)

6

I had forgotten the lysine!


1 Like
7

This is in alignment with all the research I’ve seen, and researcher’s I’ve spoken with.

So yes - I agree.

8

Great post, thanks for taking the time & sharing!

Though, I want to add one thing to whomever is taking, or planning to take Latuda & Mirtazapine. Those two interact so badly I wouldn’t advise taking them together. I was on a high dose (30-45mg) Mirtazapine for years (with success), however when I switched to Latuda couple months ago I found out they potentiated each other. Mood & social functioning, I felt great, better than ever (because of the excess NE production I’ve been told), though with too much energy! I could only sleep for 3-4 hours which backfired the benefits eventually off course. It also potentiated the side-effects of Latuda (even on the lowest dose 37mg Latuda), heart palpitations, tremors, akathisia, agitation it was bad, seriously. On a low dose Mirtazapine (15mg) it pretty much did nothing, except ■■■■■■■ up my cognition with neglectable positive effects on mood. Only positive thing on 15mg was that I did not experience any side-effects anymore from Latuda, even on a high 111mg dose. I’ve been off Mirtazapine for 6 days now and my cognition is slowly recovering and my mood is stable thanks to Latuda.

1 Like
9

My standard post for newbies (which you have not seen) may clarify where I come from (which is ten years of post-graduate education and 28 years of experience working with pts):

  1. Get a copy of this book and read it. Have your family read it, too.
    http://www.amazon.com/Surviving-Schizophrenia-6th-Edition-Family/dp/0062268856

  2. If one needs a professional intervention, tell me where you live, and I will get back to you with leads to those services.

  3. Get properly diagnosed by a board-certified psychopharmacologist who specializes in the psychotic disorders. One can find them at…
    Find Psychiatrists, Psychiatric Nurses - Psychology Today

  4. Work with that p-doc to develop a medication formula that stabilizes your symptoms sufficiently so that you can tackle to the psychotherapy that will disentangle your thinking from reality effectively. The best of the therapies for that currently include…

DBT – http://behavioraltech.org/resources/whatisdbt.cfm
MBSR – Welcome to the Mindful Living Blog
ACT – ACT | Association for Contextual Behavioral Science
MBBT – An Introduction to Mind-Body Bridging & the I-System – New Harbinger Publications, Inc
10 StEP – Pair A Docks: The 10 StEPs of Emotion Processing

  1. the even newer somatic psychotherapies like…
    SEPT – Somatic experiencing - Wikipedia
    SMPT – Sensorimotor psychotherapy - Wikipedia

  2. or standard CBTs, like…
    REBT – Rational emotive behavior therapy - Wikipedia
    Schematherapy – Schema therapy - Wikipedia
    Learned Optimism – Learned optimism - Wikipedia
    Standard CBT – http://www.beckinstitute.org/what-is-cognitive-behavioral-therapy/About-CBT/252/

4 Likes
Nootropic Stack Progress
10

uridine study about schizophrenia!

1 Like
11

i tooo think the way u think.pills are only to stable our condition(emotion)…
i also want to go 4 therapy…once i will start med or vice a versa…
therapy is only way to lessen our med doses…and to know more about us…
take care…

2 Likes
12

if you do not already therapy , in the meantime you can start doing mindfulness , you can easily find the audio guides to make it home alone . minfulness + aerobic training are the things you can start doing immediately , at no cost , without waiting , getting great benefits . and yes! the psycho - therapy is useful , many foolishly underestimate it , but it works great . the advice by " notmoses " , are excellent

2 Likes
13

I don’t underestimate it. I’m just intelligent enough not to overestimate its benefits. I do hold that for most people medication+ therapy is likely to achieve the best results.

2 Likes
14

already, the problem is that of mirtazapine in combination with an atypical antipsychotic may be redundant (binds to many of the same receptor) and cause problems, because you have not continued with 15mg of mirtazapine if it did not create problems?It was a choice of doctor? remaining at 15 mg did not have benefits on sleep? improve sleep is very important.

15

excellent

1 Like
16

I’ve used it with success in combo with Mirtazapine. With Latuda it wen’t down hill, guess because Latuda and Mirtazapine has high affinities on the a2 receptors causing excess release of NE. On 15mg I had no benefits of Mirtazapine anymore, since I stopped I notice improvement on mood & cognition. Yes and no, my docs were not aware of the interaction, I told them. Dropping the 15mg was a joint decision.

17

now we have 2 notmoses in the house…?G :grinning: uess who…

18

Not sure this is always true, but it is so often true that therapy is a worthwhile investment for most medicinally stabilized sz spectrum patients.

2 Likes
19

Agreed. 15 15 15

1 Like
20

Niacinamide is also a great alternative to Niacin to avoid flush. Quercetin also helps minimize flush.

Taken methyl-B12 for years not only with no additional psychosis, but using methyl-B12 to eliminate B12 deficiency noticeably decreased sz symptoms.