Schizophrenia.com

The church of non-med


#1

I’ve been called weak for my continued use of my meds. Some of the guys in my group have said that I’ve,
“given up”
“drank the cool aid”
“let myself be chemically lobotomized”

I think I’m doing pretty well in life right now. I like my life, and it’s going well for me. So, why not?

For the people who aren’t on meds, if it works for them, great. My way is by no means the only road.

But for a few of the people I’ve met, I wonder why they have to try and convert me to the church of no meds.

I’m not trying to convert them. Why do some people get so angry that others are on meds?

I admit it, I am a man with a mental illness, and I take meds to function in my life. Maybe because I’ve gotten to “enjoy” the very bottom of existence that I know that the church of non-med is not the church for me.

Those little tiny pills keep my head circus in check, they keep my negative symptoms away and they keep me at my job, which keeps me in my apartment, which keeps me from being homeless.

So please, enjoy your church, and I’ll enjoy mine. Some were in the middle we might agree on something someday.


#2

I totally agree with you J - I have worshipped at the church of no meds myself for a few years. I weaned myself of Navane and found myself to be more delusional and out of it. I am pro meds, but I do support those people that don’t take meds and are doing fine. We are all in this together, even though some of us do not like to admit to this.
There are plenty of times that I wish I were not on meds - meds do cause problems as well.
But I choose to stay on meds because this works for me. I would prefer not to take meds, but then all of my symptoms would trample right over me


#3

I agree that the most important … thing/part … is that the individual with the illness find a system that allows them to live life to the fullest (whatever that may mean to the individual). Like you I am required to keep a job to keep my independence; food, car, house, etc…

Ultimately my decision to take meds or not will be decided by my ability to cope with this illness in some other means. If I am unsuccessful meds will be the logical choice as I cannot afford to not work.

It confuses me why some people feel the need to push their ideas and views on others simply because they think differently. Why can we not all learn to live and let live, accept that people are not all the same, and it is our difference that makes us beautiful.

I dread the idea of living in a world of sameness, of cookie cutter humans who are by any other means no different from robots following a set of actions governed by a similar program each are running. The dull greyscale that would ensue is not for me. I need color in my life. And I oppose any ideas or policies that would dull my world.


#4

I hope this came out coherent. I am finding it difficult to communicate today.


#5

It made perfect sense. I too get a little leery of the “genetic/ medical tinkering” that is going on. That sort of scares me a bit. I want to function, and get healthy, but I don’t want to be “fixed”.

I am pro science. My Mom is a science teacher, and her getting to the bottom of my problems and not worrying about stigma, not worrying about religion, not worrying about what the neighbors say, is what got me into treatment fast and helped me get my life together sooner then expected.

But in some cases I think we might be crossing that line between what we can do, and what we should or shouldn’t do.

I just also get irritated at people who get so mad that I’m on my meds. Why does it bother them?

I admit, I would LOVE to be med free. But that is NOT an option for me at this point. Admittedly, my Dad has said he would LOVE not to have to always worry about his heart meds. But he sort of needs them if he wants his heart to keep working.

I guess that chemically lobotomized feeling would come from incorrect dosing? For some reason, I’m on the right amount of what I need. But if the balance is off… I could see being resentful of taking something that doesn’t seem like it works.

But I still wish people wouldn’t try to convert me to their church. What an awkward feeling and position to have to defend my actions that have worked out well for me.


#6

Some scientists think that some thought systems are like computer viruses (memes) that are trying to replicate themselves… People are basically infecting you with their ideas… If you have some doctrinal immunity you won’t change your beliefs much…

Who knows if this is true but it is sometimes what I think of when I talk to people that seem absolutely convinced of anything and want others to do the same and in turn spread the idea to others. I think I am just as guilty (or a vector :slight_smile: ) at times trying to preach a gospel of physical health to others.

You have to wonder if the non med people really deduced those beliefs about meds themselves or if they are lemmings just like everybody else. I think it is pretty hard for the average person to pass a judgement on meds one way or the other if they have never studied biochem, cell biology, etc… I have not learned enough about these subjects to really have a fully informed opinion.

From what science I do know, meds are a huge trade off… They could be helping us mentally but they could also be creating free radicals ( atoms missing electrons that can rip apart other molecules) aging us prematurely, messing up metabolic processes (glucose etc) and so on… But is living with total insanity a good quality of life? Thank God for meds for now… If I end up with cancer and heart disease or die young I may start whistling a different tune.

A lot of people that pass judgment know very little or nothing about atoms.


#7

I have little time for either the anti meds or pro meds extremists,ie the ones that say meds are evil versus the ones that see them as ‘wonder drugs’ .
For many of us the truth lies somewhere in the middle and not on the outer edges.
If people can cope and do better without meds then good luck to them but don’t push others to go down the same route with accusations of weakness.


#8

I am glad my doc is ok with my tweaking my dosage a tiny bit up or down now or then depending on my symptoms. I think that is usually a good idea if done carefully because you can’t always tell what the half life of this stuff is in your body so a lot of times you have gage it by your symptoms and physical indicators like how much tense you feel, sleep you are getting, Bp… The body is always in flux so sometimes you can have too high concentrations or too low.

I am a control freak so I like to be trusted with a little bit of responsibility to decide for myself anyway :wink:


#9

There is a human tendency in a lot of things for people to assume what works for them should work for everyone else… It’s often a false generalization and a fallacy of reasoning and still alive and kicking all around the world.

Maybe I am wrong to think that logic is good for everyone :slight_smile:

On the other hand, our treatments are still grossly primitive… Docs have come long way since the insulin injections, ice baths and vitamin b shots they used on my mom… They still have a long long way to go but my quality of life so far has been much better than my moms was.


#10

Yeah, I think the best place is in the middle somewhere. I stopped taking meds because all of them seemed to have too many bad side-effects. Saphris worked wonders for me(I’d call it a wonder med), leveled me off, made me not give 1 ■■■■ about what other people think, drove my productivity up, allowed me to sit in one place and be perfectly contented, and even seemed to starch my shirt; but I wouldn’t take it again, because it seemed to be killing off the part of my brain that made me create, different, and alive… though I could say that part of my brain is what also drives the schizophrenia like a wild-fire, but it’s not all in itself. It’s like recycling a car just because the driver fell asleep and went into a ditch. It’s not the drivers fault for having to work 50 hours a week, and not the cars fault for having rolled into the ditch at 70mph, but taking the car away would prevent the accident, 100% of the time. It’s just not profitble in the situation. It’s better for the driver if he would find a way to driver slower, work less, and still live with a full stomach, and spark in his eye.
But no, I’m not anti-meds. But I think people should try atleast 100 alternatives beforehand.


#11

In my case I needed something to work quickly. I should have also been working a lot harder on my diet at the time. I still kept eating a lot of junk. I still eat some junk but I enjoy it more because I am not eating it all the time.


#12

I used to be a fundamentalist preacher of the church of NoMed…LOL… I’ve calmed down quite a bit. I’ve actually met people who seem to need them no matter what. I have done the take as needed a bit myself, but no long term, unless you count 6 years of Ritalin as a child.
I will offer advice about natural supplements and diet if someone is complaining they aren’t being helped by meds or are having negative side effects or feeling suicidal on them. Or if they are simply feeling doped up and unmotivated and ask if there is any other way.

@bear371…there’s a prime example of how meds can work differently in different people. You called saphris a wonder drug that helped in many ways, but had some negatives. I took it for 2 days and it interacted so badly with trazadone that the psychiatrist took me off immediately and switched to latuda, which didn’t have the side effects. Not the negatives from saphris you had…it was keeping me up, itching and crawling out of my skin almost.


#13

@e_lunaseer I had the same reaction, to the point where I started to record a YouTube begging people not to take it. I would take it at night, and my would have the “restless legs” thing going on, except x100 and all over the body. The third night I swore I would not take it again, but friends friends(who were also psychyatrists) begged me. After the first week, that restless horrible feeling went away completely, and was replaced with just a calmness. For the few people I’ve read on forums that did take it, they said the same thing. If you stop taking trazadone, I would recommend trying it again. Good luck!


#14

i think you do an amazing job being sz, balancing your work life and illness…
but i am trying to turn people but only to the ’ dark side ’ you will all become ’ sith ’ one day…hahahahaha (a menacing laugh can be heard ! )
take care


#15

I am all for meds. Mine aren’t perfect but I live with it. I would be a better powerlifter if I werent on meds. I deadlifted 505 three times today from the rack (not a normal deadlift, more life half a deadlift). Maybe if I wasnt on 3 sedating meds I would have done 605 three times. I have restless legs. I take six pills a day to stay sane.

But im high functioning as ■■■■.


#16

I think whether or not you take meds is a personal decision. I am currently taking meds, though I hope one day to be off them.


#17

Personal decision - EXACTLY! That’s where it can get into the doctor pushing meds when a person doesn’t really need them.
Ok, so I occasionally see and hear things. I don’t like being around a lot of people…so does that automatically mean hallucinations and social anxiety so recommend psychotropic medication? Some doctors have told me that.
But the counselor I saw the longest said no…and basically said in my case it was a personal decision and she wasn’t going to recommend anything.
Now, this is only because I am functional even if I have symptoms. I like being around people I know, I just don’t like huge crowds or traffic, or a bunch of people talking nonsense.
I remember in 2012 when I had voices 24/7 for a week. i didn’t stay in. I went to the store a few times, and shopped. Even though voices were coming from the items on the shelf in the store. I got what i meant to get and left. I didn’t act weird at the checkout. maybe I can multi-task, idk…LOL.
Plus my visions/voices tend to be learning experiences, spiritual in nature, or a sharing of knowledge. the negatives I view as challenges like a real life virtual reality game.
I do realize some people cannot function with this going on so then at that point there are med options if all else has failed.


#18

There was a pretty long time in my life, where I was just on mood stabilizers, no antipsychotics in my system. I was so delusional I had no insight what so ever, but I did function to a degree, I just thought I was a holy demi god and I had these supernatural abilities - Could I live out my life with no antipsychotic? just mood stabilizers? I really dont know, I am too fearful of what could happen


#19

Just a note on the literal ‘church therapy’…the protestant counseling is still leaving a lot of the churchies really screwed up upstairs. These nuts are set on some of the unfavored parishioners to ‘gang stalk’ without a peep from the other parishioners. To clarify, these folks are allowed to think God talks to them and will do what voices demand - even if it violates Christian teaching like battery, theft, extra marital affair…By unfavored church visitor, I mean: unable to tithe, works too many hours to attend regularly, unable to volunteer a lot or emotionally reserved people in holly roller places. The big non-denominational churches have no problems setting these kind on unwanted/unproductive visitors to a church…these churches have no management outside the church to whom they answer except the cops or child welfare services, the abuses stop just shy of this kind of govt involvement in complaints. Some of the churches really look like the anti-christ / devil worship situation especially in larger cities. Many who say they are not involved in organized religion or atheist, have some psychotic experience and tried a place like this only to be humiliated out of there about something private …

So medication works, right on for you man. Whatever works for you…I don’t need the meds or church, but I do take a dose of psych meds that help my insomnia as it is affecting my weight/sugar level bad. If you feel you are surviving well enough & situation works for you, no need to change a thing…

If you are on SSDI, the review committee could disagree with the no-medication approach. I had really good results using a therapist just to assure I am functioning/thinking okay and did not take medication fr 2-3 years, but my insomnia was too bad. My SSDI did not stop and I did not get an early review. This is an accomplishment as I was fighting badly with the folks that caused my nervous breakdown who have a bad history of sexual violence against women and would not leave me alone (stalked me bad, trespassed, vandalized…everything was threatened so I don’t question myself when I see the man leaving and stuff is broken in my home repeatedly to run me into a ton of debt so I could not get an attorney)…Repeated complaints of this kind of crap to police will get you a forced psych evaluation and no cops will intervene unless you get photographic evidence and most of the time, the camera systems are ruined…Hense involvement with a therapist will get you let out of the mental hospital early if you do get picked up for forced care…My local suburban police threatened me with this once…I talked my way out of it – ‘I obviously have a diagnosed disability as I carry a Medicare card at age 40. I am current on all my psych appointments and taking the meds as prescribed. My doctor is…’ I always carry my psych doctor’s card for this purpose. I am not delusional, show psych symptoms or show confusion ever so this in my favor. The new local psych cop (who is trained to discriminate against victims of crime & refuse service) is the worst thing ever, calling victims sick for reporting trespassing & everything is broken in way previously threatened…Try to take this to court & not take medication, some judges or attorneys will try to get you forced mental care…This whole thing is such a terrible mess to navigate.

BTW: YOur symptoms will improve if you met anyone like this and just no longer talk to the person…these kind come after women, many woman…, but sometimes men are ruined too. No longer return phone calls, emails or answer door to the person. No longer talk about it and sometimes the psych symptoms get better.

Do understand the purpose of ‘social worker therapist’ – this person is an interventionist. They are not your friend…they are not going to give you much good advice. They are not going to help you even develop any coping strategies for schizo, social problems or discrimination in the workplace. This person can just vouch for you when you need bailed out of psych hospital if you get yourself in trouble. Any confrontational behavior (or even showing frustration with some of these care providers) will get you a forced psych evaluation…Sometimes these ‘attitude adjustments’ take so long you could lose your housing or job…Use this kind of care with caution but same applies to the pdocs.

Better to leave an unsatisfactory doctor without any comment, make an appointment in the future to keep your meds coming and make appointment with new doctors to check out your options…It is also possible to say you will be moving or just cancel next psych doctor appointment and switch to therapy. DO NOT EVER FILL OUT A RELEASE SO YOUR THERAPIST CAN TALK TO ANYONE ELSE…USE A THERAPIST IN ANOTHER OFFICE FROM PSYCH DOCTOR TOO. Start therapist while seeing psych doctor to reassure the therapist, then drop psych doctor in few months after you are established a good working relationship with the therapist.


#20

@ Stillperkin,
You are right about some of the independent churches being that way. i have been in a few. I was an unfavored church goer. Didn’t tithe, just gave offerings when i felt led to, which wasn’t often. I’m more the type that will help someone directly on the street anyways and I know exactly where it’s going.
Disagreement over doctrine.
Gang stalking big time when I got engaged to a girl who had been married, and I was also divorced…church said no divorce and remarraige…physical assault by one of the deacons, threats, mind games played on the girl. making a circle around her to pray to deliver her from the demon and when i went to lay hands on her shoulder the preacher yanked my hand away, and almost got backhanded across the pew…but I refrained because I wasn’t going to feed into his nonsense, and he probably would have called the cops if I had, even if he put his hands on me first.
they also usually believe in deliverance and will say all Sz is a demon. that is not the case.
I am a Christian and rely on God by faith for daily living and coping - but I have nothing to do with those kind of churches.