Schizophrenia and Latent Homosexuality?

DX'd - Other
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I wouldn’t argue that. Because there is a lot of stigma associated with LGBTQ identification it may be easier for people suffering from a disorder that is wrought with stigma to embrace their identity. Or perhaps having your brain opened to so many stimuli with schizophrenia brings you into a different comfort zone or perspective - you may simply not give a ■■■■ how people respond to you.

The way the conclusion is drawn could be from so many things. They say people who live together before marriage are more likely to get divorced than people who didn’t live together until after marriage. The reason cited is that people who are morally ok with living together prior to marriage are more liberal in their views on divorce. So that wouldn’t mean that people who wait till they get married to live together have happy marriages. It just means they won’t get divorced, they could theoretically have a viciously unhealthy marriage but remain married because they don’t believe in divorce.

As far as LGBTQ anything goes there are so many different ways people/their families handle that reality and at the time many people are grappling with feelings of sexual orientation or the onset of sexual attraction is often the same time many people begin to experience symptoms of mental health disorders. Not always, of course, but developmentally I think a lot of things can overlap.

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I dont know if you were supporting the notion suggested by the op… And im not really certain as to how i feel about it beyond a few things here…

There are a great number homosexuals without mental illness… Even closeted types(assumedly)…

And it would implay that every schizophrenic is homosexual… Which is absurd and obviously false.

Correlation or causation or coincidence… I mean in some cases they might interrelate. But to say generally that sz folk are “latent homosexuals” is super stigmatizing of a group that is highly misunderstood and people underestimating the diversity of sz people os one of the biggest problems in that.

Now I dont like to consider homosexuals abnormal… Theyre integral to human history and the animal kingdom… But you can say that usinng the vast majority of heterosexuals(who can still have issues) as reference, homosexuality can be seen as the result of an abnormal brain… Some findings have supported this. Im not going to dig them up. I personally believe that is part true… But there is also phermones at work… Which being hormonal can relate back to the brain it also is a result of several other body systems…

Now people have really liked to simplify this… Queer thoery is the science behind it… Largely speculative and with little relevance or practicality in knowing, you basically learn sexuality is a spectrum and people should be respected in how they want to live their lives. But as simple as it sounds spelled out, that seems to be a higher concept than most people want to ascribe to.

Back to my point though. There are more than one “type” of homosexual or variants on any type of sexuality. Some people really are just geared to find this gender or that gender visually stimulating in that regard. For others its the smell. Others the touch. For most people somethig seals the deal one way or the other.

My favorite people are the bisexuals. They should win and rule the world. But thats just because their is liberty for everyone in that perspective. Less paranoia and condemnation. Breaks down standards and predjudices that shouldnt exist. Things that prop some folks up and push other people down in certain cases… Even in the non serious cases where people dont actually mean it, but they are seeking to devalidate the person in some way.

Uhhh fuckkk what was i thinking about

Right social identities… Not personal identities… When there is a schizm between the two… That is difficult to wrap the mind around (i know this for sure). Its a core of my issues or was, once the sz manifests, well its a different beast, understandig where it came from is crucial but just acknoledging it isnt going to solve he problem.

Thats what i think is the common thread between sz folk. It can be a sexuality issue, or an issue of self importance, or this or that… And it is purely a result of our brains eventual failing to maintain a normal processing scheme. Its not purely this or that… It especially has nothing to do with sexuality. As a community here we should see that as obvious. Their are very sexually open minded people on here that are heterosexual. Thats just what does it for them, that and that alone, its what they want and theyd struggle through anything else.

Freud was a confusing character. I suspect he had a lot of issues himself. Just to feel entitled to make proclamations like that. Minute and definite proclamations thay belittled the subject matter… I mean thats totally going in the wrong direction from understanding the obviously deeply diverse nature of the human beings and the operational biology that determines it.

Thats enough out of me. Oh wait two things.

People mention this repressed homosexuality… Would there not be a counter of repressed heterosexuality? And upon hearig that and going with the general consensus on the sexual desires of men… Id say that most hetero men would be repressed… So that would mean most men in general are sexually repressed. If latent sexuality is basically repressed sexuality… Then wouldnt hetero repressed or latent men also be at risk for developig sz due to lack of sexual expression?

As time goes on… We’re just going to find how far from perfect anyone’s brains or genetics are… People should learn about diversity so they can not be caught off guard and meet it with empathy. People should be taught how to be individuals and respect that people are separate organisms and generalizations are bad. Judge all you want in your head, even feel good when you turn out to be right, but keep it to yourself. Every one has flaws.

Like i said this topic was at the core of my psychosis… the grounds for the entire persecution complex that lead to delusional beliefs about people and then evenully voices that spoke from those delusional misrepresentations of characters from my life.

I dont know when I started hallucinating and to what extent the things i heard were real(talking about spoken words, even peoples mouths moving).

Really though. My psychosis sucks because remembering it unfold as it did was still really convincing. These people baited the trap and i walked into it… Its what they do to gay revolutionaries who hate this binary for the prejudices it places on bisexuals and how they relate to homosexuals… And the condemnation complex that exists in the culture for those who are sexually open minded(regarding homo stuff) “you’re gay!” Voices repeat that ■■■■ all day in my ears…

I mean its fuckig illogical all around.

If bi people are secretly gay… But have under gone and enjoyed hetero sexual acts… That would imply homosexual people enjoy heterosexual acts… And what the ■■■■ would that say about the existence of monosexuality in general? If the homos were closet hetero? Well would imply sexual orientations are a farce and psychological comfort and that yes indeed hetero folk are gay… Hah funny ■■■■ how they don’t see that.

Bi people are gay to an extent… But gay people are not bi…

They just wish it was that simple…

Im generalizing here, but i know that the dominant perspective is at critical mass where only in isolated instances to people deviat from it… Largely most people avoidig the topic entirely or going with the flow to fit in.

Heteronormative is the word.

My mother even told me after we had been talking. About this issue… “Most people dont fluctaute like that, we either gravitate towards one or the other, for moral reasons.”

That last part has always confused me… It implied that homosexuality was fine… But bisexuality is immoral…

One last thing i want to mention here:

Bisexual erasure… Its a real and documented thing. Its a crime. I dont know if there is a metaphor that really demonstrates it… It takes certain strength to exist as a bi orient in this society. It is shown to be linked to early onset of gray hair…(not the only cause) and aging… As well a bunch of other crap (like sz) (due to social identity issues not proven to be directly or gentically correlated)(this site does have the largest pool/% of bi folk that ive come accross in my life)

Sz in general… HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SEX…

Fucken exhausted now.

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My mom has been generally pretty great with my sexuality, particularly when I thought I was gay. But she has problems understanding bisexuality, too - she said once, “I don’t really know with you. Sometimes you seem to like men and sometimes you seem to like women.” Well, yes, Mom, sounds like you’re following along. She was probably thinking something pretty similar to your mom, just not saying it.

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Yeah i never really had a homosexual element to my psyche… Not strongly it was more just the acknowledgement it was out there… As well as some vague anxieties around certain men(typically attractive (and totally hetero))… But all the nervous crap i felt in my teens that didn’t stand out to strongly. Was something i’d try and avoid… Nothing like that ridiculous feelig id get in my stomach when finally to girl x or y… And the obsession that would explode around those occurrences.

Just this vague queerish uncertainty about how i felt about men…

My point is when i started getting sick… Probably about 6 to 8 month before the hallucinations started… That emphasis on the potentials and relevance of homosexuality took more of a central focus… More a thing of fear (paranoid sz) than it was of lust or desire.

A lot of this revolves around just always seeing things bisexually… Its a distorted view on homosexuals to consider them deviants… But its like hetero sex is one thing and gay sex is a separate thing… They arent mutually exclusive. But im guessing the gay men experience a lot of the things that i only experience for women amongst each other. Like that nervous pit in the stomach or a half hour lost in directionless lust for someone.

Mouses mentioning of gay dreams kind of got me thinking about this, it wasnt until prodromal phase set in that these things started to occur for me. There was a limit to it though. I was never pleasing a man… Honestly ive got no idea what that experience is like. And their was no anal… Just dudes sucking my dick and flirting with me and crap… Also still had hetero dreams… At one point there was a table of me and three other people. 2 girls and one guy… One of the girls was congratulating me on accepting my bisexuality…

But that was years ago… As i got myself out of those social circles… As i quit the drugs and lost interest and emphasis on pleasures like that… Sex dreams almost entirely vanished… And in this last year that i can recall ive had maybe 2 or 3 “gay” dreams… And my psychosis is also much more relaxed.

Im kind of doing a tell all right now… Its for me… The ultimate vent… I think its healthy.

Im to the point where these issues don’t plague my mind so much… But i do think ive come to a good perspective on the matter. And the presence of this topic kind of woke up the train of thought earlier. Which is bothersome but it’ll be gone tomorrow if not sooner.

Really bothers me. This town is supposed to be liberal… But that reputation just seems to make people feel like experts in diagnosing sexual identities… Really they just didn’t want to give me any room here. Im talking about the place i was working and all the high school graduates who never learned anything beyond the hierarchical playground ■■■■■■■■ of k-12…

At some point i just decided to embrace the bisexual identity publically, little by little, showing what my natural humor was… Throwing in an “orientation-queer” remark here or there… And then all the sudden i was wokring with this lesbian girl and she started calling me her man and who the ■■■■ knows how psychotic i was at that point… Ahhh

Anyways you do something like and its basically suicide regarding having a heterosexual identity… Its been bullying ever since. Again im a schizophrenic, i dont know whats real… It all just fits together so perfectly.

At least i got the real psychotic crap out of my system… Like believing in interdimensional beings and reptillian illuminati… As well as bisexuals turned transvestite rapists just to protect the telepathic hetero crowd from being wittled down or even totally undermined as being considered immune to whatever it is that makes people “gay”.

Telepathy… ■■■■ that ■■■■.

Well this has been a wonderful plunge into the depths of ■■■■ I try not to think about.(because there is no real point)

Its also unfair that women can be bi while men who are bisexual have a totally different battle as far maintaining a heterosexual life. You’ve either got to be a liar or accept the pool is much smaller.

Its just another layer of ■■■■■■■■.

People just need to stop. Just stop making it an issue about what bodies people have rubbed on in the past.

Its latently homophobic to not accept the reality of bisexually oriented people. Homophobia is typically correlated to discomfort and discomfort from mixed feelings and yadda yadda yadda maybe those folks are gay. Its just ■■■■■■■■. Sexuality should be a private issue. Its almost more acceptable to hide your gender than it is to hide sexuality.

I dont know, ive basically rationalized that these things arent going. To change in society. Its how people at large want it to be… For their comfort.

Not a single known homosexual in the history of my family… And i tried coming out as bi… Im also sz and they dont really know what is me and what is the illness. Unfortunately its all part of me… Though that constant part that was always with me… The abstract me or perceiver… Thats in here too… Thats the part im trying to empower and get the reigns back to… With a lot of success. Which is why i allowed this tangential divergence from my recovery path to artificial ignorance… Stepped off the tight rope to see how my psychosis would respond… Wasnt that bad, good opportunity to get all this ■■■■ out of my head.

Its midnight now… Thats pretty great.

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Unfortuantely these people seem to be judging my character and not my attractions.

Having the thought broadcasting ■■■■■■■■ does not help me be normal at all. The hallucination constantly probe me for insecurities.

But i can tell when im in line hetero standards of character… And can also tell when something i say or support deviates from that.

I mean im really opinionated and im a free thinker. I absolutely do not let character archetypes influence my opinion. Gay men make a lot of sense, hetero dudes could use a lot of improvement. Im talking about the stereotypes… Cleanliness, good listening, lack of ego, all kinds of things. I’m more referring to my taste in music, which is pretty broad, marina and the diamonds and lily allen are in there. My music plays on shuffle… I listen to ben folds more than anyone ive ever known personally… Uh and oh yeah “of montreal” the weirdest most known openly bisexual group that ive heard of…

The biggest thing though… Is the breakdown of gender identity expectations… I think its crucial for a healthy relationship to not be founded on character roles which are in most cases imbalanced unless people truly do fit into those romanticized operational niches.

I also detest sports… Cant stand to watch that stupid drawn out crap. I dont care how many social perks id gain from enduring it.

There are other things… Including a lot of crap i’d talk about while psychotic…

But it pissed me off for a good 48 hours the last time my mom was over here… And this may have been hallucinated… She was drunk and had just arrived here… We started talking about something and i was transitioning to talking about something else and she was like “gayyyy” but kind of in an appreciative way. Not so critical. Whatever the hell i was talking about had nothing to do with sexuality at all… Thats the kind of crap i hear from these people. All the time… It just seems like a property of heterosexual folk to do that… Just call out anything that is gay to demonstrate their inverse awareness of what is not straight, because they are totally straight minded people and while they might joke from time to time they lack that minuscule insecurity or hesitation or confusion in their characters… Whatever it is they seem to see in me.

I dont even know whats real or what to do about it. Isolation has brought me a lot of peace. I felt i had to get out of that back and forth nonsense for a while to get any real clarity.

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Yeah, a lot of it is just ignorance. It’s like how I get offended when someone uses the term “schizing out.” Most people aren’t even aware of what schizophrenia really is but will use the term in some way to describe something that ends up being offensive and/or completely not what they mean. If you point it out they will brush it off like it’s not a big deal because they aren’t really thinking. Yet that ■■■■ really hurts because it’s so blatantly insensitive and misrepresentative.

I think people who don’t “accept” bisexuality are too clueless to take the time to even consider what it could mean. It’s like people who think all people on welfare are “working the system” so they don’t support it because it means we are giving tax money to people who are just drug dealers or whatever. Yes, there are people who work the system, and yes there are bisexual-identifying people who are using the label in a way that doesn’t reflect the majority. I think it’s like 3% of welfare recipients are not accurately documenting their situation. Those are the people you should be upset with, not the welfare system. People seem to see bisexuality as the small group who are misrepresenting things for the rest and may use it as some sort of manipulative way to attract or lie to lure in whomever for whatever they do it for. It’s easy to believe there is just clear gay/straight because then you can stop trying to understand more and you have these clear labels to apply to people so that you don’t have to really get to know them. If you can slap a clear label on someone it puts you at ease because then you know how to approach them…

A lot of negative crap we deal with comes from people simply repeating hateful things they have heard and shutting the door when you want them to hear you out. This goes for all people everywhere. It’s been my experience that people in general like to say their opinion, often forcefully, and then shut the door when you want to discuss it or try to correct parts that are not accurately representing the group they are attacking. If they can’t be right they are done, end of story. They don’t want discussion, they want to spew their views regardless of how accurate they are or who they may be affecting.

There is homophobia and misogyny even in the LGBTQ community. There is domestic violence. It’s because people are people. It puts pressure on those who identify as LGBTQ because any mistake you made comes back to represent a larger community that is already marginalized. That’s pretty standard across all groups though. It just hits us hard because we have to fight for a lot of basic rights still. I have never been into any gay pride anything. I don’t make a big deal of coming out ever, I just act like I normally would. Yet in my state I could still be fired for my identity. It’s totally pointless and puts unnecessary stress on people.

One thing about bisexuality and queerness that a lot of people get caught up on when they are trying to understand things is that you aren’t this 50/50 being and it’s a mystery as to why people should expect you to be. You can identify as bisexual and be completely rooted in that identity and have only had heterosexual relationships. You don’t need to have had several relationships with men and with women to “qualify.” It’s about your identity and how you see yourself and it is completely self-defined. I know someone who is married to a man and has a young kid but is very strongly self-identified as bisexual. She speaks of some regrets, like never exploring relationships with women prior to her marriage and attributes it to not understanding what bisexuality meant herself because of the way it was always represented. It’s no one else’s business unless you want it to be. You could be a woman who has only had relationships with women who is open to having a relationship with a man but never does, it just never ends up happening. Whatever she wants to call her identity is her business. Would you attack a woman who is straight and only dates men who are tall with dark hair but never ends up dating a short, bald guy for not being straight because she doesn’t want to date all men?

I think a lot of trauma that can come from dreams is from things that we know are uncomfortable. We may have no intellectual issue with sexuality but if our dream wants to bring something up that we know society would slam us for it can twist it however it wants. You may have no trouble with driving but then have a recurring dream where you crash your car and it scares the ■■■■ out of you. I had dreams as a kid where I would take Victoria’s Secret catalogs from my mom. It made me really uncomfortable because I knew I was gay already but I also knew I wasn’t attracted to the models. It was really confusing and uncomfortable and made me question a lot of things I wasn’t ready to talk to (or had anyone I could talk to) anyone about.

The issue with “latent homosexuality” is really the “latent” part. It’s implying that something is being covered up or repressed. Things very well may be repressed with us but they vary widely and stem from a vast pool of life and biological factors and should be addressed on an individual basis - shocking. They are still stumped by a lot of things about schizophrenia and sexuality today, imagine how it would have been in Freud’s time. It would be supremely easy to wash your hands of any confusion by saying that schizophrenia is due to repressed homosexuality and move on.

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Yeah , its nonsense. The reason that Freud probably put this forward was probably because of tactile hallucinations a subset of sz sufferers endure.

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I wouldn’t make too much of Freud’s remark here. He pretty quickly gave up on trying to understand schizophrenia for he found schizophrenics to be too alien to him, he couldn’t emphatize with them. Allegedly, he only extensively tried to make sense of a single case, the famous Daniel Schreber, but found he had reached his limits here and gave up. So as far as I know, there isn’t such a thing as an elaborate theory of Freud on schizophrenia beyond some remarks. Schreber did indeed have gender issues, sexuality I wouldn’t know.

In my personal experience, homosexuality certainly has been a theme at times, arising from intrusive thoughts and then developing into something big in the interplay of hallucinations and my own reflections upon both these alien forms of thought. It were my intrusive thoughts that were most straightforwardly homosexual in nature, during one period. A dynamic would unfold with my hallucinations calling me gay etc. and I would reflect on such thoughts and at times flat out deny them, at other times I would consider them and reflect on how they matched up with my other thoughts and experiences. Such led to confusion, for sure, and doubts about my identity. But I never got beyond these doubts, I never found a new certainty of being gay. At times, I begged (to whom I do not know) for such a certainty: “let me be gay, then, let me be sure of that and let me have the feelings too”. It never happened. Then these thoughts passed and slipped into other taboo topics, more deviant sexual thoughts, thoughts of violence, of racism. Such topics came and went, lasting for a month or so each, and the dynamics of intrusive thoughts, hallucinations and reflections upon these were always similar. Surprise, denial, doubt and shame. And I never got to feel the affective counterparts of such thoughts. Accordingly, I never got to be quite certain of whatever taboo orientation was occupying me at the time. The modality, to me, seems to have always been that of doubt, that of undermining whatever my identity used to be. It never got to the point of confidently and unhesitantly living a new identity or orientation.

Nowadays I see such identity-undermining worries as part of a slightly bigger picture. For I think our conception of who we are, of our identity, joins quite basic conceptions of how the world works to form something like a worldview, or orientation towards the world. It seems to me that in psychosis, it is not merely the part that concerns the self that is undermined. This whole orientation towards the world is shaken. This allows for interpreting events in rather unusual ways, such as the experience of unusual causal relations, experiences of alien control and other psychotic experiences.

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In Freuds days it was illegal to be homosexual. That must have created a lot of stress for the individuals. So probably these people got mentally ill more often. Nobody is immune to stress.

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I’m aroused by females, exclusively. I am an extension of heterosexuality, though, as I prefer transexuals to patent females. That’s the only “abnormal” aspect about my sexuality in comparison to the rest of society.

As far as Sigmund Freud is considered, the man was a quack & is a quack by today’s standards. I wouldn’t trust nor care to read into any of his “professional” work. Seems like he had a prognosis of his own and heavily depended upon his own defeats & self-projections when analyzing others.

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I think Freud’s cigar was a substitute for a ■■■■■ and it was in fact HE who was gay.

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Gee, I was of the education that Freud was clear that schizophrenia was an organic brain disease and that it was followers of his who tried to mix schizophrenia up with homosexuality.

I guess Harry Stack Sullivan was a psychiatrist who thought he had schizophrenia and homosexuality, but actually, although he had homosexuality, he did not have schizophrenia.

It is clear to me that I have schizophrenia. I had psychoanalysts try to have me look at my unrecognized homosexuality, with no worthwhile purpose served in their actions.

it was a stressor for me to have to fight off these psychoanalysts and the direction they wanted to take me.

I had a psychoanalyst ask what women I found attractive. I said, “Goldie Hawn” and he had an aha moment. “She’s kind of boyish, isn’t she?”

Jayster

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I think Freud was making a Freudian Slip with that comment and he was talking about himself. If you ever see pictures of him he always has that big phallic shaped cigar in his mouth.

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Well just don’t stop there in trying to understand schizophrenia. What causes one to have latent homosexual tendencies in the first place? If this is the case. I myself, think it starts in the early development of the brain in it’s early embryonic stages of development wherein the developing brain may compete for gender identification caused by other things going on even still earlier in it’s development. We humans are all simply, very complex individuals.

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Female: XX
Male: XY

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I had a dream last night that a girl kissed me. I didn’t like it. After years of people accusing me of being gay, my brain is torturing me. It’s believing the crap of others opinions. If you can’t tell by the name Roxanna, I am female. I have been in a hetero relationship for almost ten years. I knew when I was six years old that I was attracted to males. To note I am in a psychosis state right now. I always wanted to be a mother someday. I don’t think that’ll happen now. A mental health worker told me once that sometimes you’ll start to believe what others call you. So now in gay and a hoe, ■■■■ and who’re according to others. I have a feeling ill end up asexual in my forties. And of course with sz I have all the paranoia and voices.

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Freud was obsessed with sexuality :roll_eyes: That man had some problems. Pretty much every theory he ever proposed has been discredited.

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Sexuality is fluid. Ever changing or never changing. People should go with what they feel.

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I’m bi- loved a woman in college, now I feel that I’d better love a man. Or a woman who is so cool that wants what I want I think I could do it. I’m a man btw. And I think it’s crazy how lots of peoples voices play on their sexuality. Mine did too calling me a faggot- something I’ve dealt with a lot being bi but not always comfortable with it. I’d say I’m gay but it’s not exactly true, even writing this I got excited of the kinda woman that would potentially love me for who I am- homo erotic tendencies and all. SZ is f*cking weird.

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Anybody can pretend to be straight or gay but not everyone can be sexually active in the real World. I was molested when I was a boy so I had sexuality issues over the years but I never had anything resembling sex again. I have had fantasies about women but couldn’t commit to a sexual relationship. I now have ED and am quite content to not try to have sex at this point in my life since I am messed up in so many other ways.

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