Our choices are predestined. Which means God chose this for us. He even chose our shirt this morning and just makes us believe we chose. Every move had been planned.
What makes you say that?
I come down firmly on the side of “yes, we have free will”. Of course, we also have influences or factors that we may not have direct control over such as genetics, environment, the laws of physics, and so forth.
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No one forced you to start this thread. It was your own choice.
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Free will. We are taught God gave us all free will. Yet every choice we make has its own set of consequences, Adam and Eve ate the forbidden apple and thus kicked out of Eden…yet true free will would have allowed for Adam and Eve to eat that apple without consequence. We have the choice to get educated and get a nice job, and a nice house, and a nice family, and nice things, but if we don’t do what the plan is to get those things we don’t end up with those rewards.
If you think of free will in that since then, no I don’t’ think we have free will. But then I look at countries like North Korea, you have to have a certain job, you have to mourn the death of leaders (even if you personally didn’t like them), you have to join the army for a certain amount of time….and even in North Korea they have “State-approved” hairstyles for men, and women…even more limited based on your marital status. Then I think yes, we have free will. In America if I don’t want to fight for the army, I don’t have to. I have the right to protest (peacefully) the things I’m against. I have the right to go to school past a certain grade.
I wonder if we’re mistaking free will for consequences to the actions we choose. Do you choose to follow a decent life path, or do you choose to run the streets and do bad things? In some countries you may not get the opportunity to freely decide what you want for your life, but I know in America we do.
Of course, finding that free will if you are mentally unstable is extremely hard…they want to put you in a hospital, pump you full of drugs to make sure you’re not a threat to yourself, or those around you. Yet you can choose to fight the treatment, but you won’t get better. You won’t have the life they think everyone wants…free will I think simply comes down to being able to choose which set of consequences for your actions you get. Am
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God is omniscient. He knew ahead what every move we make would be.
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Gosh… people can be thick sometimes. Look, you can choose to do good or evil, to harm or heal, to speak or remain quiet. You can choose to pick up litter and throw it in the trash or to throw trash on the ground and litter. So what is good for others isn’t always easy but ultimately it is good for everyone even yourself. This is what it is to be selfless. What is right and wrong. It begins with self. You can show compassion or indifference. Cruelty or empathy. It is your choice. There is more but well… people who are conditioned into being fearful of what is different are often close minded and selfish. Almost want to facepalm, but I choose not to.
If it were true that we have no free will, peer pressure would not exist.
I think we have free will based on choices. Maybe some things are genetic, or predispositions but I don’t think that means predetermined. I can will myself to lift my right arm, choose to eat pizza, run a hot bath, sleep or sit up etc. These are all choices and of my free will. I can pick a religion, non religion or a personal belief. My personal belief is I have free will. Believing that is a demonstration of my free will.
I have free will to obey my Higher Power, or not. I choose to obey. Most of the time at least.
I believe we have free will pertaining to some things.
I often wondered how much of me is predetermined. Just last year I had everything get turned out from under me. None of it was my choice. I did not suddenly decide to be worried about people being behind me. Nor did I decide that I could not stand the kid noise anymore. I did not decide to suddenly not be able to stand music. and so on. How can I claim to be independently thinking and not just a machine when I feel like a different person than I was a year ago. I just have someone else’s memory.
Not sure of this Sam Harris person. Will google him later. But I don’t believe we have free will. Because obviously everything that ever happened and ever will happen is what is supposed to be. I think that people think they have free will because we have the capacity to imagine what things would be like if they hadn’t gone the way they did. I hope that makes sense. I think about this a lot.
There’s a lot of vitriolic comments as this descends into God speculation.
Anyway, all you are saying with the self talk is that people’s impulses and actions based upon their character are predictable. This does not designate the entirety of what could be considered will. If you follow that persons learning capabilities, and extrapolate for them to observe the consequences of their actions, their decision making process will change over time.
I guess I’m saying the the study is fine for assessing children, but will does change over a longer timeline. The longer the timeline the more branches in variability, and the more potential changes the individual would make in their own process, which could be designated as choice.
Also I don’t think the voices thing matters if you can record them in the vocal chords. People silently repeat everything said to them, whether by a person or a voice. Heck, they silently sing along to music without realizing it
I personally believe we do not have free will. The idea that free will doesn’t exist scares people so most won’t even truly entertain it. We create all these mental/emotional safety blankets to wrap around ourselves because it’s easier than looking out into space at night and going ‘I have no freaking clue why.’
Sunlion
I am not saying that people’s impulses and actions are predictable. I think that people have free will in the sense that we can’t predict what they are going to do. People are not controlled in any predictable way.
I am just saying that our voices (all of them) are vastly overestimated. We think that they are people. Schizophrenics think that there voices in the plural are people. And in a way, voices are people. Because that is all we are, plus “higher ups” or “others” or what have you.
Nasa records thought so that astronaughts can control equipment by thinking (self-talking)
https://www.nasa.gov/centers/ames/news/releases/2004/subvocal/subvocal.html2
most philosophers would disagree!
Never get into an arguement with a philosopher. Never take the red pill. Never start a land war in Asia!
Keep it simple people! It’s much better for the soul!
I’m pro free will… not sure if we have it but I’m for thinking we do. People need to feel a sense of responsibility when it comes to their actions.
I have the same view of consciousness. Might be an illusion but I’ll believe it’s real cause I function better that way
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The real schizo donot have free will, blockage of free will is the root of schizo mind… thats what its all about… all peoples who are saying their free will is not effected then i say those are the peoples who are only facing delusions but this is only one part of schizophrenia, if you are completely effected by this disease then your free will must be effected because your Aura is revolving around that particular belief which is directly proportional to severe effect on free will.
Hope u agree