More new research that helps destros the argument that schizophrenia and other mental illnesses are “spiritual emergencies” or mystical / consciousness issues.
Of course - some of our members like @Apotheosis won’t like it and will ignore it because it doesn’t fit in his world view.
CONCLUSIONS:
Our data show that patients with schizophrenia have smaller pineal gland volumes, and this deviation in pineal gland morphology is not seen in those with mood disorders. We hypothesize that volumetric changes in the pineal gland of patients with schizophrenia may be involved in the pathophysiology of this illness.
And another study that just came out today with similar data:
CONCLUSION:
Delusions in schizophrenia were correlated with GM volume in multiple brain regions, including the frontal, temporal, and parietal cortices, compared to those in patients with BD. Hallucination was associated with temporal lobe GM volume in patients with schizophrenia and with insular cortex GM volume in patients with BD.
And another study related to the materialism (physiological factors) behind schizophrenia risk.
The Gene 3q29 deletion confers >40-fold increase in risk for schizophrenia
Paper Here:
The 1.4-Mb deletion on chromosome 3q29 was first described in 2005 and is associated with a range of neurodevelopmental phenotypes, including developmental delay, intellectual disability (ID) and autism.1 Prior data has implicated the same deletion as a suggestive or significant risk factor for schizophrenia (SZ)
Primary Cause? This doesn’t answer the question of primary aetiology.
Is everything so labelled all the same thing?
i have No problem acknowledging, exploring & investigating the psycho-physiology/pathology of schizophrenia/psychosis. & i think it’s very valid to do that.
As per the ‘expert’ opinion you posted the other day that cited the condition was ‘bio/psycho/social’ & the question i asked (that you ignored) as to how do ‘you’ separate the weightings in each individual case? & wouldn’t it be rational to consider that some cases are more psychosocial in primary aetiology?
Anyway - so what is it now, it’s not cat poop, it’s not some genetic mutation - it’s a malfunctioning pineal gland (for who knows what reason?). Great - when can i have some tests for it that show that’s what it all is, & is the best primary treatment the neuroleptic drug i’m dependent on?
Look - The day my GP (Doctor) & the Psychiatrist calls me back in & does a battery of tests that categorically shows/proves exactly what pathophysiology i’ve had/have that has caused my psychotic experiences/condition - then fair enough. i’d absolutely love to have evidential tests done that show i have a physiological condition - for a start it may help get the DWP off my back, & maybe lessen some of the blame & ‘pull yourself together’ cr*p.
OK - Fair enough - if that’s what the evidence shows then i can accept i have a physiological condition - it would be a relief to know that.
Does that/would that deny/invalidate who i am & my spirituality? - Not in any way at all as far as i can see. Would it explain the subjective World/Inner Universe of my thoughts/feelings & emotions? Can’t see how it would?
& what does it imply as regards to treatment? Ignore all the psychological/emotional, social/environmental/relational areas & life experience? i don’t think it would either.
What point really is there in all this theorised ‘pathophysiology’ & what are the real World implications in relation to the actual realities of mine & other peoples lives???
So what are neuroleptic & other psychiatric drugs doing to address/cure the condition?
Interesting to note that the pineal gland is considered by some to be the seat of the soul & interface of the soul/spiritual consciousness with the mind/brain/physical body.
Sometimes I think Schizophrenia was initiated in a family by third degree / torturing them and I sometimes think that females were given huge amounts of niacin while they were raped for days taking turns. I don’t know the real cause of schizophrenia but I keep thinking " why in the hell I get negative thoughts and stories? " “What triggers these negative stories and thoughts?” Is there any reason to believe that Schziophrenia is somehow related to social order or world wars?
There is most certainly a social context, which is very played down - especially by psychiatry, & there are certainly links to stress, accumulated losses & traumas - adverse life events, etc.
All the social/environmental & psychological/emotional areas take a very back seat over biological interpretations/theories. Anything transpersonal/paranormal/spiritual - Forget it. You’re a diseased brain in a vat.
I’m not so sure, the pineal gland after all was thought to be the seat of the soul by good old dualist Descartes. More precisely, the place where his mysterious ‘mental substance’ interacted with material substance. So I can imagine someone cooking up an argument that this research supports a theory of having lost contact with the soul or something woo woo like that. Woo woo? to this day no one knows how the two substances are supposed to interact, for no one knows how to make sense of causality in that way.
I don’t think there are many researchers that deny the so called bio psycho social model that is mentioned in the video. None of the psychiatrists and researchers I spoke do so. But I think the upshot is that these factors interact. That means that changes on one level will have effects on another. And the video is quite clear about this as well: environmental factors of any kind will show up as changes in the brain, and the converse as well. Nothing controversial there as far as I can tell.
The emphasis/focus/treatment/explanation/weighting/cause is very much primarily placed on the bio.
The whole gamut of psychosocial factors get some lip service, but it’s really all secondary to physiological psychopathology. The OP & most of the postings on this forum is good example of that, & it dominates this culture, psychiatry & medical establishment, as well as all our institutions.
The views expounded in the video - a genuinely integral view/approach; is Not the general view/approach of this culture/society/system, that primarily blames the individual & their physiology/biology.
I read an article once that showed there have been trends in psychiatry since its conception that oscillated between social explanations and biological explanations. Research might be focussing on one end of the spectrum now - I wouldn’t know I don’t oversee such a vast variety of research fields. But I think that is perfectly understandable and valuable as well.
If you subscribe to an integral view, any research done in any of the contributing factors is valuable. It has not been for long that researchers even have the ability to look into the roles single genes play, and it hasn’t been for long that technologies are available that allow to research the brain and its activity in action. No wonder people are going to mine these possibilities for research. This is exciting new territory. If you read these articles like the one above, no one is making claims about final causes or comprehensive explanations. It is always about factors that may contribute etc. very carefully phrased.
You seem to pose contradicory demands on neuroscientific research. On the one hand, I have read you blaming such for the fact that they do not give a comprehensive etiology of the condition. On the other hand, you wish for a more integral approach. I find that most research is very clear about different factors being involved, hence the research into one of these will inevitably not be the whole story.
i could expand on all that a lot, but it’s a basic overview.
Lets leave aside the soul/spirit for a moment, as i know what a hard time a lot of people have with it all - lets stick with the bio/psycho/social Model - that i think most progressive & rational people would agree on. Where are the weightings within that model? i don’t see any either/or, but i also feel the primary aetiology is psychogenic - psychological/emotional - of the mind.
The current focus is primarily on the biological. Fair enough - study the brain & physiology, but have a genuinely bio/psycho/social model - the reality is, other than lip service, it’s Not.
& if we’re going down the route of primarily focusing on the brain/pathophysiology, then we have to admit that we still know incredibly little, & a proper investigation into such areas can’t carry on ignoring/denying the question of consciousness, & many people just don’t want to discuss/look at all that.
i’m Not opposed to a more comprehensive psychiatry, wise use of medication & front end services, & i’m all for open science, discussion, debate & dialogue around it all - But you know as well as i do how this whole area/conversation is usually framed, & the sanctioned/accepted dialogue/paradigm around it all.
Maybe it’s better for the majority of people so diagnosed, to accept the diagnosis, take the pills & accept the illness/brain disorder biomedical explanation/model on it all. That seems best course of action for a lot of people.
For debatable reasons there are people that do make fuller recoveries/healing, but that maybe isn’t the norm? Maybe there are genuine brain disorders & also other reasons for psychosis. It all gets very confused. Some people do put their problems primarily down to trauma & abuse.
i tend to think a lot does depend on the understanding, help & support people receive - But i may be wrong? & regardless of my views on it all, i can’t change society/the system in relation to it all.
Primarily i’ve wanted to make a fuller healing/recovery from my own difficulties, & i have made a lot of progress - i also have to accept the diagnosis, that i have an illness, need medication, that my overall health/functioning has been very effected, & i probably won’t achieve, nor make as much progress with certain things as i originally envisioned/wanted.
i can’t really find categorical answers to things, or my own life experiences - certain spiritual explanations do make some sense - so too do certain psychosocial & psychiatric understandings. People are in depth & complex - mental health disorders are generally complex conditions.