Another rant

The topic this time: progressivism.

It would seem that as the world develops quickly technologically on a sociological level things are much slower.

Most people are in the passenger seat of worldly progression. In fact we are pretty much forced to be. They enjoy their lives as best they can and when new things come along there is an ooh or and ahh and they either incorporate it or disregard it or pine for it. (I personally would like to own a tesla model S). There is a stream of new phones and Televisions and computers and cars so people think the world is progressing. I don’t believe in higher conspiracies, but there is a phenomenon of mass acceptance which no one really decides upon but perspectives become accepted as normal. I’d like to place blame on the culture or more the entertainment sector, but I know that entertainment isn’t intended to enlighten or control people. It is merely an escape from reality. What really shapes mass acceptance is the world itself. Some form of natural selection. People really are broken into life in this society. Once they learn to accept it, they begin to defend it. When the next generation comes along and tries to change things all they find is resistance or total disregard.

So should the world change? I think hypocritically, while people accept and sustain this culture many of them would agree ideologically the world should change. Then you get into the dissonance of how it should change and what would be defined as progress.

In the big picture. No one has really had any say in how the world works at all. We are born from a lineage of human beings that stretches back to before society even remotely resembled this highly interconnected world. As population grows, individual influence wanes, first just by sheer numbers drowning out each other’s voices, but also by the competitive nature of living in a world of scarcity which does more to discourage people from speaking up then it does to reinforce them in their strengths.

Lack of awareness is one thing, but spend enough time on this planet and eventually that lack of awareness seems more and more like voluntary ignorance or more harshly “closed mindedness.”

The greatest thing that could happen to this world is the erosion of mass ignorance. The spreading of more enlightened altruistic/empathetic perspectives. There are layers and layers of stereotypes and stigmas all over the place. Unfortunately in some cases they are sustained by real events, but it is only because people want to maintain their ignorant understanding of things which props them up. This seems natural to a degree, but irrational when people fail to consider that it inherently puts the other people down and forces them out of that feeling of acceptance. Individually people don’t think they are affecting things, but when they agree with each other and they maintain their perspectives it ripples out and creates societal pressures and opinions which people do run into all the time.

If you’re not allowed to feel accepted in life, the chances that you will fall astray would seem a lot higher.

So back to progress, in this cultural sense. What can be done?

People like to protest, people like to write books or websites or blogs, but these things lack penetration. Protests can make a perspective utterly detestable as it can be seen as a mild form aggression.

It’s futile and that’s the worst thing about it. Gets even more frustrating when you see people intentionally shrug off the notion of social change or even worse deliberately stand in its way.

That’s enough out of me for now. Just had to get my thoughts out. Life with schizophrenia is tough, all I want to find is some like minded people who are in a similar place that I am in life, but none can be found. The existence of things that upset/scare people are continuously brushed under the rug so they can carry on without regard.

It is so easy to wind up alone in this world. This site is great. It is really something, but it just makes me wish that there were higher levels of organization and accessibility for the downtrodden. Something to reel us back in from being outcast, to allow us to feel like belonging humans. It’s the ultimate platform of life, just to have social support.


That was really intellectual and long! My eyeballs almost fell out… It was good words though. More power to you brah :facepunch:

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Ah left one part out…

Just needed to mention that most of the terminology and perspectives regarding social progress have been around for a long time. Unfortunately none of them rise to surface and hit mass appeal. Really hate the passive nature that people take to on things. It will continually upset me for the rest of my life I’m quite certain.

Sorry you feel that way. I honestly have no clue what any of that was about.

Your really smart. :wink:

Hah, well I appreciate the compliment. Thanks for reading.

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progressivism is not particularerly liked or looked forward to due to the human nature and instinct of prefering to conserve the past and value you it above the future. and who can blame it really thats how things worked why try something new if it wont work as well as it used to?

Yeah I know it’s futile.

If you think the status quo is the best we could be doing with what we have then I’d like to challenge you on that. I see that things could be so vastly different there would have to be better alternatives. Unfortunately it would require people to change as much as it would the world.

At the risk of sounding to aggressive I’ll go ahead and say something here. The trend is for human traditions to wane off and be forgotten. Society does change over time. This current “modern” world is inherently primitive when placed up against what is yet to come. This lack of insight into the future has allowed humans to be totally irresponsible with the environment and even economically(mass debt, personal and national.)

It’s gonna change man. I just want it to change quicker.

theres no such thing as “status quo” even under conservative idealogy there happen alot of changes all the time just not perhaps not “morally” or “socially”. The world will sooner or later change but will it be for better or worse is the ultimate question.

Depends on how well informed people are when the decisions come to pass. And definitionally there is a status quo. Even if it only lasts for an instant. On a larger scale though societal institutions have a lasting hold on things. If your content with this world, consider yourself lucky.

What does it even mean to be well informed? Knowing all the facts? Well there are so many coherent worldviews which conflict with eachother so severely that if one is true the other seems stupid and informed and vice-versa. Even scientific knowledge is open for interpretation.

Knowing all sides and risks involved and then making the right choice.

I just wasn’t made for this place.

Real scientific knowledge is pretty irrefutable. Scientific theory is a different story. But experimentally verified and reproduce-able results have cemented a lot of things as solid fact.

everything is refutable since we cant actually be sure wether our “brains” represent reality or wether we are made to believe it to be this way. and scientific knowledge presumes basically that many events occur without the cause of an agent but the rain could also theoratically be caused by an invisible weather demon.

OK dude. It’s cool to be open minded but to disregard the tenants of science and postulate that there is some undetected influence over this world, that’s not a valid point to me.

With this illness I know how askew the internal vs external reality can be. I also know that humans are clearly not as evolved as they’d like to think they are, especially regarding our brains.

I might have fallen victim to the willful ignorance trap already… That is, I used to be quite politically engaged and now have a rather defeatist outlook when it comes to societal matters at large. That is to say that I don’t see many actual top-down changes that impress me, and I reason from that (fallaciously) to not seeing them possible.

In my country one does not even hear plans or ideas for such top-down changes that would really change things. I know you are not only talking about politics in this narrow sense, but it is part of it of course. We have about 15 parties, bigger or smaller, only a handful of which make a serious chance to get into parliament. These are all ‘in the middle’ and in my opinion, their differences are very nuanced. It is all about tinkering with the buttons. Party A wants a little bit more tax on this, party B wants a little less on that. C wants 2 million more on education, D wants 2.1 million more on it… The more radical alternatives are no-go’s for me for being oversimplifying populists. So politics-wise I tend to think everything will just be muddling along more or less the same way, and little potential for a more radical course of action can be seen. And to be fair, compared with other countries, mine is doing reasonably well, so maybe this is more or less the best one can hope for when it comes to top-down changes in society.

I am more optimistic and impressed by bottom-up changes to society that also seem to me to have shown (so far) to have a lot more impact on individual lives than the top-down changes have had in my country so far. Initiatives that employ the potential of the connectedness that has come with the rise of technology. Some examples will be apps that connect you to people in the neighbourhood to eat together, share tools, etc. One may argue that such ought not to be required for social coherence in city areas. But the fact is that in these areas people tend to be living past each other. Such developments can and do re-connect people in these areas. Which is the bottom-up change it will start with, I suppose. Some community projects that support bottom-up initiatives with subsidies show that it does not have to be an either-or situation. There are a lot of these in my neighbourhood and I have seen it develop and flourish over the past 8 years or so. I am more concerned and impressed with such local changes nowadays than I used to be. These seem to me to have a bigger impact on the quality of day to day lives of people. It is true though, that it is questionable whether such an approach is fit to all problems society faces.

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Why not? its just as consistent as saying that there isnt. Isnt the whole notion of progress meant to be morally advancing to the point of accepting all the different possible lifestyles, perspectives and worldviews? Science and or naturalism doesnt seem to be working in this direction but alot of naturalists still are moral apostles and the most dedicated progressivists.

There is a actually a really good argument made by a christian philosopher who claims that our brains arent reliable at all at giving us reality if evolution and naturalism are true.

It is more the passive nature of the commoner that I am addressing than the nature of politics.

Those bottom up organizations can do a lot.

Technology has changed a lot, more regarding keeping in contact with people you know. It is still tough to meet people via the internet.

There is no SZ anonymous in my town or anything like that. Also no viable means to advertise and get one off the ground.

I don’t know man, I’ve never found my place in this world.

There needs to be a legit “mentally ill” group, that fights for the interest and inclusion of these people. It should not be by professionals, but rather seem to include as many “users and patients” as possible. If this is too big a task for the patients themselves, the government should encourage this.

I do actually believe that almost any other disadvantage in life such as alcoholics, other ilness, sexuality is supported and promoted to gain a shared community in soceity.

WIthout coming across as paranoid, there seems to be little to no interest in making severly mentally ill group together unsupervised. This though is the very thing that is needed to gain real connections.

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The world is moving away from being a natural(not shaped by intelligent influence) to being artificially engineered. Society itself is already a facet of this.

Rain falls because heats water and it vaporizes and is drawn into the atmosphere as the cooler/denser/heavier molecules or clumps fall and displace it. The collective moisture builds in the atmosphere until thermal interactions cause it to condense making it heavier than the collective particle cloud(air) beneath it and it falls. It’s called precipitation. There is no conscious force behind it.

There is more to just accepting lifestyles in the vein of progress. There is also the reduction of crime, the spreading of accessibility to the basic standards of life. I mean social equality between people who aren’t criminal would be ■■■■■■■ great, but that seems even more unlikely than the aforementioned stuff.

Anyways man there clearly isn’t a rain demon. Nature refutes that itself.

Yeah man I’d like to see a push for that across all communities. It would seem people are more inclined to discourage that kind of organization.

Was reading a review of It read something along the line. I don’t think getting 9000 sz/bipolar people in one place could amount to anything good. They went on to explain that when crazy meets crazy the crazyness just multiplies. It’s completely disregarding to the fact that we are all human. It assumes that people with mental illness are crazy. Having read that on a very popular website I know that most people would be inclined to agree with it or even be entertained.

I don’t know man.