Why people with SZ rarely benefit from CBT therapy

CBT is too simple and does not account or target the most prominent symptom of SZ - the unstable self, the atomization of self and other self disorders

Sometimes i think that therapy is made by normies to deal with a normie life and their crises. Therapy can’t cope with the problems most acute for a schizophrenic because schizophrenia is a bit aside the normal world.

Here is a quote from the article:

“…methodologically rigorous meta-analyses have recently found only modest overall effect sizes of CBT treatment, and therefore questions have emerged about forwhat and for whom it actually works.”


The whosit whatsit?

1 Like

I agree.
CBT didn’t really help me and I don’t even have schizophrenia but another psychotic disorder.

CBT isn’t really useful with bipolar disorder either.

1 Like

Self disorders are a cluster of symptoms very typical for schizophrenia. The theory is that people with sz have an unstable self and fragile understanding of ourselves and our surroundings (if the world suddenly is full of spies that listen to your thoughts for example, it’s an example of the yourself and your understanding of the world has broken.) Thought disorders are another example of self disturbance. If you suddenly feel alien thoughts (or voices) in your mind, it’s a sign of fragile self who haven’t got a solidity to keep such things out of your being. Dissociation - where you don’t feel connected to the world or your body, a typical SZ symptom, is another example.

I’m getting to go off APs because I’ve done extremely well with CBT. I know others who have also done very well.

Sounds like you’re blaming the victims here. Uncool.


No, you misunderstand me. I’m not blaming the victims I’m just referring to a very sympathetic theory about SZ. A theory that wants to listen to the “whole person” and not a bundle of symptoms like in CBT. A theory who have not got quick fixes but really want to get in contact with the person.

Glad you had good experiences with CBT. I had not.

Not a problem I have. Sounds like an Ant-Man power to me.

A quote:

“In the schizophrenia spectrum disorders, the minimal self and the self-world structure are “constantly challenged , unstable , and oscillating ,” causing anomalous self-experiences known as self-disorders. These involve the person feeling as if they lack an identity, as if they are not really existing, that the sense of their experiences being their own (the “mine-ness” of their experiential world) is failing or diminishing, as if their inner experiences are no longer private, and that they don’t really understand the world. These experiences lead to the person engaging in hyper-reflectivity , or abnormally prolonged and intense self-reflection, to attempt to gain a grasp on these experiences, but such intense reflection may further exacerbate the self-disorders. Self-disorders tend to be chronic, becoming incorporated into the person’s way of being and affecting “how” they experience the world and not necessarily “what” they experience. This instability of the minimal self may provoke the onset of psychosis.”

1 Like

That has never been me. Never. I’ve always had a strong sense of self-identity. The problem was that I couldn’t tell that the crap data my brain was feeding back into itself wasn’t real or keep it from consuming all my attention.


Same here. I’ve never had a problem with sense of self-awareness either. This may be the case in some people, but I think the broad scope of that quote is not accurate.

1 Like

I never got anything out of therapy except it’s nice to have someone to talk to. When I first got sick didn’t even no what therapy was. I just saw a shrink. He talked to me. I saw him every week. This went on for years. Then finally about 4 years later I got a psychologist and didn’t have to see a shrink every week.


Glad you have a strong identity. Identity is something more malleable and social than the self that lies deeper.

I have no / or low identity and lots of self disturbances.

But if you said this to a such a psychiatrist, they would probably say it sounds like a self disturbance since you don’t know what’s real and normies don’t have that problem

My first psychiatrist said I have a psychotic disorder and the symptoms originally lined up with disorganized schizophrenia. I have improved enough that I was upgraded to paranoid schizophrenia. (Yay me.) I have not heard language like you’re using used by any of my psychiatrsts in 30 years of having SZ.

1 Like

Cbt gets a bad wrap probably because it is misunderstood what it is for.

It is for modifying your behaviors.
Target that to your specific symptoms and you can reduce the severity.

Notice i didnt say eliminate. That is probably not going to happen. But changing your reaction and actions (modify behaviors), then you may get improvement.


It is a very new theory, about 15- 20 years old but just recently gained more popularity.

The theory has a weakness since they use a very special language that tends to be too complicated and closed about itself.

That’s a fault, if you want to inform people, you should use a more broad and simple language.

I’m perfectly happy with how I’m communicating.

I question the whole thing tbh. The quote you posted basically assumes that all schizophrenics suffer from this. I know its not the case for me, so unless I’m misdiagnosed, the quote is wrong.

“In the schizophrenia spectrum disorders, the minimal self and the self-world structure are “constantly challenged , unstable , and oscillating ,” causing anomalous self-experiences known as self-disorders. These involve the person feeling as if they lack an identity, as if they are not really existing"

Maybe if they had said, “in some people in the schizophrenia spectrum disorders…” I could believe it, but the mere fact that they basically said we all suffer from it makes me doubt the validity of the entire entry.


The sources referred to are a nearly decade old Pubmed document and Wikipedia. We can ignore Wikipedia entirely and hopefully we’ll see some of the current CBT research posted.


I’m currently undergoing CBT therapy, and it is helping a lot.


Sounds to me you’re confusing the concept of the narrative self with that of the minimal self, which is a failure to even read the thread you are replying to on your part. That said, I’m not a fan.