Trigger warning: apparently there are links to mental health and violence

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We watched a video in class that claimed men with schizophrenia are 3 to 5 times more likely to commit violent acts than the general population and women are 4 to 13 times more likely. I was flabbergasted, offended, shocked, and hurt. I went home with a mission to prove the video wrong, but I found some research that shows a correlation.

Here’s a good summary of the studies:

https://www.treatmentadvocacycenter.org/evidence-and-research/learn-more-about/3633-risk-factors-for-violence-in-serious-mental-illness

Comorbid substance abuse is sometimes a factor, but not always.

I read something even more shocking that claims for every person with schizophrenia that commits murder, there are 100 people with schizophrenia who try to commit suicide.

I’m not sure how to feel after reading all of this.

Can someone offer some insight? Am I just reading something wrong or misunderstanding?

EDIT: sorry if the title is a little clickbaity, I couldnt think of the best way to title the thread.

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There are different types of schizophrenia to be honest …

There are also different types of mentality.

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What do you mean by mentality? Like different attitudes? Or different composures?

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From my understanding people who suffer from schizophrenia and are unmedicated are more likely to be violent. Even more so if they are off meds but under the influence of illicit drugs. Violence isn’t necessarily always murder. To some, breaking things in a fit of anger is a form of violence. Throwing things at a person can also be considered an act of violence. Keep that in mind when these things are troubling you. According to many articles, a person who is under treatment is as likely as the average person to commit an act of violence. Those statistics you shared are not terribly surprising. My thoughts are that due to the possible violent outbursts, psychiatrists are generally hesitant to allow a patient to live without medication for fear of getting involved in legal problems should an unmedicated patient commit such.

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Well, I’m not sure if it is still a type since recently schizophrenia was lumped into one diagnosis. Technically, people are no longer diagnosed with schizophrenia paranoia or schizophrenia whatever. It is now just called schizophrenia. I remember hearing about schizophrenia nervosa. I very briefly spoke with a psychiatrist about it. He looked shocked, shook his head and said, pretty much not to ever say I had that. From what I recall, that form of schizophrenia is more impulsive in the way that a sufferer would act out for fear, anxiety, or nervousness. It would be like someone who had difficulty controlling their thoughts from becoming physical.

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Yeah, the way one thinks.

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Yeah, there are links. I’ve read too many stories about SZs who got into trouble after going off meds. Messing with meds = bad.

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What shocked me was that the video explicitly stated more likely to commit murder. I always believed that when someone is unmedicated that they are capable of being combative, or even more aggressive, mainly impulsive aggression. I was just surprised to hear that they specified murder.

I should share the context. It was a video about bringing back mental hospitals in the US. There is a severe lack of treatment, I agree with that. In my state of Michigan there are about 7.3 psych beds per 100,000 people vs. 11.4 per 100,000 as the national average. There needs to be better long term care for people unable to care for themselves, instead of being homeless or in a skilled living center who is unprepared to treat the mentally ill.

@anon40653964, I replied to you, but it got all blooey so I @ you instead.

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Different factors also come into play;

Of 8,003 individuals with schizophrenia in Sweden, 13.2% committed at least one violent crime compared with 5.3% of the general population. Concurrent abuse of alcohol or drugs accounted for much of the increased rate

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There is one part that says when comorbid substance abuse was taken out there was still twice as likely. I cant copy and paste some of the stuff they have in there, but it seems to jump all over the place.

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Now one thing that I might have spoken up about in class would be the tmfact that drugs are also more prevalent and easily accessible than ever before. Sure before people COULD get drugs if they tried, now people can find everything so easily. This includes people with schizophrenia. Prescription pills such as oxycontin, vicodin, percocet, norco, and a variety of others are so easy to come by now and misuse. Hell even promethazine and or prescription cough medicine is used recreationally. There is a big heroin problem in middle America. Opiate addictions. All these things. No consider that and without a doubt there will be some people with schizophrenia who come across that. Depending on many things, some of those people with schizophrenia will not be on any treatment, heck even on treatment drugs can inhibit the medicinal affect of most antipsychotics.

Truth is the war on drugs was a failure. I forgot the statistics something like 1 out of every 3 people in the U.S. takes some form of prescription drugs. Anyway that’s nearly off topic. My point is the drugs are there, the treatment doesn’t always reach us sufferers. Not everyone has a support system. Think of all the homeless people who talk to themselves. If they are drug addicted and get ahold of a firearm, they are far more likely to rob someone at gun point and even murder someone. If you’ve ever listened to prisoner stories, there will be a theme that is not uncommon, “If I was not addicted to (we’ll use this example) crystal meth, I would not have done what I did.” It may very well be true. There is a portion of prisoners that suffers from some form of mental illness.

After a couple years locked in the same routine with the same square feet, anyone would lose some marbles. Like the Stanford experiment. It is very possible that statistics include those in prison. I am not sure exactly but I do believe the prison population has a larger percentage of people who suffer from a mental illness than the general population outside. One more factor that is not touched upon here that often…

Can drugs cause a mental illness? I believe the answer is yes. So with that in mind, many who may have committed a violent act will later claim to have a mental illness for more lenient sentences or less dangerous incarceration. With that being said I do not mean to belittle anyone. Whether mental illness was drug induced or those posters who have done time, hell even lurkers who may relate to these things.

One thing is for sure prison is not exactly rehabilitation, people there suffer and sometimes sober up only to leave and fall into addiction again. Drugs can make any person more violent… now drugs topped with an episode of psychosis… it really is not very surprising that sufferers of schizophrenia on drugs are more likely to commit acts of violence.

As for murder… truth is at this point nearly all murderers are called mentally ill because murdering someone is far from the norm. That and I once made a horrible joke to one of my cousins. He asked, “So why are people afraid of schizophrenics?” I told him in a bad joke, “That is because when a schizophrenic kills, they usually kill more people.” I think this may have something to do with the more likely to murder statistic you mentioned. Because goodness knows not all of us are murderers. A schizophrenic person on drugs… well they are more likely to kill. And a schizophrenic who has killed might be more likely to kill more than one person in an single moment than say the average person. If that makes any sense?

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If prisoners or prison population is mentioned somewhere in your class eventually… I’d add something further.

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We are having a big discussion on mental health next week, and we have to watch a documentary on mental illness in the prison systems. When deinstitutionalization happened the population in the mental hospitals became homeless or eventually ended up in jail.

I was watching a Ted talk, I think Elyn Saks, and it stated that the country’s largest psychiatric treatment center was in the LA county jail system. I think that is a huge problem.

I would like to see more mental hospitals, but perhaps better regulated and not ten people to a small room. Over crowding and abuse was a problem in the past, but I think the idea was sound. The video we watched in class made some good points that the media always makes things seem worse and overdramatic, but there has also been some horrific conditions at state hospitals, Willowbrook probably being the worst.

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When you simply google are people with schizophrenia violent, every article that pops up says that most are not. If this were really the case no mentally ill person would be able to get a gun. You might wanna have a talk with your instructor about all evidence in direct contrast to what was on this video.

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Even this website claims that peeps with schizophrenia in jail are there for less serious crimes.

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Somebody is not telling the truth here

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I kinda saw something like that coming heh. It sounds like your professor is pushing for prison reform by way of a mental health system. I do believe some sort of prison reform should happen and mental healthcare should be improved… but I dunno if mental asylums or institutions would exactly help. They’d quickly become privatized like many prisons have become and more importantly like many hospitals. Not to mention the stigma would be increased by far. Having been institutionalized and having met prisoners doing life sentences… I don’t know that it would help rehabilitate. Matter of fact, I’m almost certain it would not help someone reintegrate into society. They’d for sure feel like it was a vacation in comparison to current prison conditions. I’m not necessarily against that part as some prisoners committed their crimes over a decade ago. Some genuinely appear remorseful while most regret the actual crime because of the consequences it presented. Say there is a prisoner who has been a model prisoner for the past 10+ years, do they deserve a better living situation? Well I’d say yes, definitely less than 10 years of being a model prisoner should be enough to get a prisoner under better living conditions. Sometimes people go in for one felony and come out more involved in the criminal underworld. This happens quite often sadly. There is a movie called Shot Caller with one of the actors from Game of Thrones, my brother in law said it is spot on as to how sometimes things turn out.

Anyway, I doubt mental health asylums or state hospitals the way they are will help reduce crime. They may very slightly improve a person’s reintegration into society but more likely they’ll just be on antipsychotic prescription drugs for the rest of their lives. The very state hospitals would have to be reformed. And then there’s the idea of a possibility of private mental hospitals for prisoners… imagine people with money essentially being able to buy their way into what is virtually a fancy rehab facility just because they have money… it is not out of the box such things would occur for the wealthy. Hell, most already get a ridiculously short amount of time for their crimes compared to the average joe, not to mention minority incarceration rates. That is a huge problem.

Two people can be tried for the same crime and approximately 7 times out of 10, the person who is a minority will have a longer sentence. That definitely attributes to the disparity in prisons. I know certain folk may argue ■■■■ like, “Well ‘those’ people commit more crimes.” My response is yeah, well it is because we are broke. Poverty has a lot to do with crime rates, it is also known that in amongst many minorities, mental health carries a huge stigma to the point of outright denial.

These things all are factors that I believe would affect both mental healthcare and prison reform. Something does have to be done, it begins with lessening economic disparity. Some of the most successful years of this country were when the middle class was strong. Sure there was an “upper middle” class. But now even middle class folk are sometimes living paycheck to paycheck. The idea that a person cannot raise a family on minimum wage has literally been the cause for many people to turn to a life of crime.

Overcrowding in prisons is a major problem. At one point Califirnia was building more prisons than universities. Guess what happened? They filled up. What really has to happen is a prison reform. Will it happen? Not likely anytime soon. Believe it or not privately owned prisons are a big business. Truth is ideally mental healthcare should be available for all who suffer from a mental illness including prisoners. Really though when it comes down to it, the punishment for nonviolent crimes should not be thrown in with those of violent offenses. It gets complicated really fast. What of those who committed a single violent act, should they be lumped with offenders prone not violence? Probably not.

So then, who would be the ideal candidate for a state mental “hospital”? That question has a difficult answer. There are many suggestions that could be made, but which would be the most beneficial and successful in terms of true rehabilitation? When it comes down to it, drugs ■■■■ things up fast. Then there are prison gangs… those are no joke man. They run entire yards in various prisons. It may sound like a little but when there isn’t a lot of square feet to walk around, they run ■■■■ on and off the streets. How would state hospitals affect that? Segregation? So then what? In prison, caucuasian (no offense to anyone again) people are the minority. Sounds like your professor’s heart is in the right place when it comes to improving the prison system. When it comes to improving mental healthcare as a whole though… if those ideas come to fruition, expect people to further fall into the “statistics show schizophrenics are violent” belief.

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Great thread. Well, I think that mental illness exaggerates one’s bad personality.
If one is violent, before schizophrenia, he would be more violent with mental illness.
I’m not sure. But in Greece, a schizophrenic committed murder of all his family because he thought that they were planning to kill him, so he killed them first. Delusions can make us violent, I guess

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I agree Jassy22… someone is not telling the whole truth. It is like using factoids. Statistics that can be misleading because of certain situations require them to be true… i.e. untreated person with schizophrenia on drugs.

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I also think that may have made national headlines right? While say a murder robery at knifepoint might just come out in no age 4 of the newspaper. I don’t know how things are in Greece or how much violence occurs. Probably not as much as Mexico.

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