Questions in the mind of the sufferer

1

Continuing the discussion from Trying my best to understandl:

I can say from past experience with my son that he, when experiencing psychosis or schizophrenia, has a lot of questions that he wants answers to. Questions about the universe and his place in it. Questions that I’m not sure that he will ever find the answers to except by making a decision about his own belief system.

I think you make some really good points on asking what is the bad effect of the wrong answers and what the sources for these answers are. If they are only internal answers with no regard to the physical world or probability then I wonder how much one can trust these answers. How does one go about getting the correct answers about all questions located in the mind?

2

Now.it is important to distinguish between 2 types of questions;
1-a questions be related to the sz sufferer about his internal and external world,
the correct answers is the means to overcome sz and its problems {symptoms}

2-a questions be related to the family of sufferer about his state, future and behaviors,
the correct answers is the best means to deal with the sufferer during the family life,
social life and daily life events.

notice that,these division of questions has been emitted in the mind-brain of the sufferer too,but he does not gives any attention to them specially in the first stages of the sz,

overall,when i talk about the sz case
,i intent the condition that the person has hears voices
and perceives animated cinematic images of imaginary people {whatever who they are-now},it must be the person has feels with an existence of otherness inside/outside his psychic world

whatever the definition or classification of the schizophrenia condition in the medical community,i talk about vocal audible phenomenon,not about any other silent schizophrenia {without voices}

so.if you believe that the Sz is silent phenomenon “without hearing voices”,there is no avail to writing a questions or answers

In other words,if you think that there are 2 types of sz in the nature,first with hearing the voices,and the second without hearing any voices,i do interested only with the first case of sz{hearing the voices},and i ignore the second case

-in the case,if you deny the existence of the first case “hearing the voices”,it is so easy
to ask your son:do you hear voices ?..{.yes} or {No}

for example ,you wrote"when experiencing psychosis or schizophrenia"
1-we do not talking about experiences of people without schizophrenia
Question:what is the nature of that experiencing ?
what is the things/symptoms that has been felt by the sufferer during the time of experiencing psychosis /schizophrenia/hallucination ?

we search about direct testimony from the sufferer himself,by his personal
expression ,and we do not search about any description to these things/symptoms
by the testimony of the external viewers (whatever they are}

in other words,we accept only the testimony of the person with schizophrenia (victim} not
readership /audience

i want know the main nature of sz of your son:
is it silent phenomenon or vocal/audible phenomenon ?

WE ACCEPT THE ANSWER of your son ,not any other !
notice that,any person with sz,has the full mental ability to answer
correctly about the question ,more than answer : 1+1=?

3

I can’t answer some of this since I was not the one experiencing psychosis. I don’t know all of what my son was feeling, seeing and hearing. I don’t think he knows either which would make getting the correct answers even more difficult.

I don’t know what sz is. No one knows exactly what sz is. Scientists and people like myself have theories. Maybe in 10 or 20 years we will have better answers.

Personally I believe that it is a biological or physical disorder that manifests itself as spiritual or supernatural phenomenons. Based on what I have seen.

4

What about people who have “ideas of reference”, where they think they are getting visual “messages” from their environment? In your book is that not schizophrenia?

5

My son has never talked about anything pertaining to his illness. He does seem to think that everyone is out to get him, has a lot of anxiety, doesnt like, or care what is going on with anyone else ( so he says ). I sometimes think that maybe all this stuff that happened to him was because of the heavy drug use. I honestly have to say-even now-I dont know anymore.

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6

Quite frankly,I thank you for your candidness and saying what be atrophied
in your self plainly

In spite of such frankness that well return us back to the zero point ,which all
debates about sz will stop at it {what is the essential nature of sz,who knows
the higher truth, or something from this truth…etc}
=100% ,each human being without schizophrenia,do not know
exactly what is schizophrenia {TASTE-flavor-savor-fell-weather}

=100%,each person with sz,he knows what is the taste,flavor,savor and fell
of the schizophrenia ,but MOST of sufferers have not the mental ability to describe
these characteristics by accepted scientific expression,have not the ability to explain and
understand its higher truth,even if they spend their lifetime to understand the data !

-although each sufferer has knows the existence manifestation and the different impacts of sz over the mind,but it is so hard to knows the impact mechanism or understand its secrets !!
-something like the impossibility for the sufferer ,to has reads the data,understands,explains,responses while he under the impacts of sz,because the mind itself is the venue,theater,scene and cockpit of all processes !!

The critical point of knowledge of schizophrenia has been atrophied in the answer of the 2 question;
1-WHAT IS THE FEATURES OF existential manifest of the sz itself inside the sufferer?
{how the sufferer feels the existence of sz inside himself}

2-What is the symptoms manifestations of sz FOR the views of the viewers?
-sz regard to the eyes of all external viewers {you,readers,family members,doctors…etc}
-observations of all viewers for the changes that occur in the thought and aspects of behaviors of the sufferer }

-one man feels sz in himself,while all viewers can not know what he feels !
-all viewers see results of sz impacts on that man, through notice the radical changes on his thought and behaviors…this is the plot

FOR example,if you see someone have infected with Ebola,in reality you do not
see the Ebola itself {the disease or the cause of disease},but you notice the impact
of the Ebola cause on the behavior of the sufferer(the signs that be classified as
the external symptoms of Ebola -the results of feeling with Ebola internally }

Now,look at what you were said:
“No one knows exactly what sz is,scientists and people like myself have THEORIES”
-we say that,what you said is the core of our subject that you were supposed to investigate
its events to know its facts !!
to understand the point,the possible knowledge sources about the sz is one
from the following:
-The psychiatrists
-Medical references
-the experiences of workers in health care of the schizophrenics
-what was said by sufferers themselves in this web or others
=your theoretical view about sz as a one from public( non-schizophrenic
=YOUR SON,as someone suffer from sz

your investigation must be focus on obtaining a correct answer which related
the nature of hidden THINGS "internal symptoms /or features of the existential manifest of sz /or the internal phenomena,processes and events} that has been felt by the suffer
inside his specific psychological world ?

Do NOT PUT in your mind that,doctor or any human be able to know any details
about inner things{ imperceptible and disdiagnosis by lab tools} that be emitted in someone (sufferer} and BE FELT BY HIM
and supposed that; this someone
unable to aware the existence of these things inside him,and have not any idea
about the activity"impact" of these things inside his consciousness

BECAUSE,any sufferer be able to diagnosis the existence of new THINGS
independently about all viewers specially IF these THINGS has been emitted within the place-time of
the phenomenon that be called "the self ""psychological existence "

In any situation that was,the sufferer is the trusted source of the information
about the nature of imperceptible,dis-diagnosis and unknown THINGS for any
observations of external observers ,even if you can not understand the intented meaning,
concepts,and connotations of sufferer description,or he makes fatal mistakes
in his description

the sufferer has still the only trusted source of information,because he is the person
who feels these things,and you should seek to translate this feeling to correspondence
information,if you do that you will be able to have realistic knowledgeable and correct answers around the schizophrenia

7

I think what you are saying is very similar to what my son has told me several times. That Dr’s etc don’t know what sz is because they do not live it so can’t know what it is to live with sz. I agree that Dr’s can’t know what it is like to live with sz. I think I have an idea as I have been somewhat psychotic in the past due to drug use.

I will disagree with you a little bit though, just as I disagree a bit with my son’s view point. Even though Dr’s do not have sz and do not experience it, science can help us to understand. Like Ebola. We can’t see the Ebola itself in the person but we can see the impact that it has on the person. We see the external symptoms. Same with sz. The viewer sees the external symptoms however the person with sz does not always see the symptoms. This is called anosognosia.

My son and I used to have some fairly long conversations about what he believed. I have tried to understand what he believes. I want to understand why he thinks or believes the way that he does. A lot of the times he cannot explain it to me. He has told me that he can’t. That no words can help me to understand. Personally I think this is because he doesn’t understand either. He feels what he does and has faith in what he believes however there doesn’t seem to be any solid reasoning for what he believes.

Do you read many articles on the internet? The reason I ask is because in another post you made reference to taking aspirin when the person should be taking an antibiotic… Something like that. I did see an article after reading your post that made the same analogy.

8

The children do not feel the manhood symptoms,until he becomes a dult man
the man do not feel inside himself the womanhood symptoms
the woman do not feel the manhood symptoms "do you know the intented "
the man do not feel the period cramps on woman
the man do not feel the pain of accouchement
public do not feel the symptoms of swimming in the space…

IF i am a children, it is not correct to deny the existence of the
manhood symptoms for the adult man ,for excuse i do not feel it !
IF I am a woman,it is not correct to deny the existence of
the manhood symptoms,for excuse i do not feel them in my self !

SAME WITH SZ
,if you are a Dr,health care worker,a person
from the public " all without Sz",it is not correct to deny the existence
of sz in the schizophrenic person,for excuse, you do not feel sz symptoms
inside your self !

Is the idea has been reached to your mind ?
you should know,sz does not occurs for all people,it is 1% from the public
thus,who is feels sz inside himself is just 1 % from the world individuals !

SO THAT,if you deny the existence of sz,in reality you deny the existence
of realistic phenomenon felt by 1 % from world population for sake an excuse,you
do not feel it inside your self !!

the person who is feel the things internally,who can /{cannot} know what he felt
99% from world population do not feel any things and can not know what is nature
of these things

the question
How can you and 99% of public have knowledgeable with a things that you can not feel,see,hear,touch or diagnosis it in the lab ?
it is prevailing cognitive insufficiency for 99% of public

i tell you before, the medical diagnosis of sz symptoms IS not diagnosis for the internal
symptoms,the sz itself or its cause,
but it is diagnosis the results of schizophrenia on brain-mind of the person "like delusions,illusions,false beliefs,paranoia,social withdraw,isolation},

these symptoms are the end products of sz cause activities on the mind-brain of the person,that is to know,the intervention of sz cause within the mental functions causing both side of changes
1- in the thought which reflect on the behaviors done by the person
2-in the chemical background of the brain

,all symptoms that you know about the schizophrenia; are the sz product,except the things that you call “hallucination” because it is the real producer /or produce /or generated

You wrote"the person with sz does not always see the symptoms.this is called anosognosia"
-please notice that,when you using word " symptoms",
you should know that,there are 2 different types of symptoms,

1- inner symptoms- felt by sufferer only-unable to diagnosis by viewers or lab tools
2-external symptoms-be able to diagnosis by eyes of the viewers

you ,population ,all writers in this web and all doctors
talking about the symptoms of sz as if they are single type,and this is fatal mistake that
lead to wrong conclusions

say what you want about the external symptoms “behavioral symptoms” no problem,
they are the results of sz AND they are not the causes of sz case

BUT, do not touch the inner symptoms at all " the phenomena that be called-hallucination"
The researcher who can gives correct minute details about the “hallucination”,is the person who know the higher truth,and all writers enough by writing the dramatic stories about the behaviors of the sufferer,and they think that they know the truth of sz ,and that is mistake,because
there are a different between the behaviors of the sufferer and the behaviors of the sz cause,
wherever the behavior of the cause causing the disorder in the behavior of the sufferer,
so that, all your conclusions about the causes of the sufferer behaviors must be wrong if you belief that the sufferer fighting himself,thoughts,memories,while all your conclusions must be correct if you believe that the sufferer in inner cognitive /cultural and religious fighting with the cause of sz,and the result of the cognitive fighting has impacts on the psychological volition which lead to adapt dis-sociable behavior,non-moral,unpractical…etc

Please keep the following facts to anyone search for the higher truth of sz;
1-the phenomena that so-called -hallucination by psychiatrists,is not a symptoms in its nature.it is
not a symptoms of disease or else,they are lively entities /living organisms
-they are emitted inside the place-time of the psychological entity of the sufferer
-the suffer feels the existence of conscious organisms inside the same time-place
of his own consciousness
-they have real existential manifest inside the consciousness state of the sufferer
-they seem inside the consciousness state of the sufferer as if they are a group “family”
of psychological entities
-the sufferer feels the existential manifest of the hallucination by the same mechanism
that he uses to feels himself or existential manifest of oneself.in spite of that,he
does not feels himself if he feels them,but feels with a parasitical psychological entities,
-he feels that,they are not himself or a part from himself at all,they seem as an external psychological entities{ although they existed internally in the same place-time of himself}
=they can act and behave inside mind-brain like we have inside ourselves
= they make up inner communication with the mind-brain of the sufferer to
exchange the higher knowledge through vocal connection
=their functional activities in mind-brain of the suffer causing many disorders
in all possible mental processes,emotional which lead to the behavioral failure…etc

in other definition,the phenomena that so-called hallucination is the schizophrenia case
itself,the features of schizophrenia cause and the internal symptoms that be felt by the
sufferer without feeling with any other symptoms !

In sum,the PERSON WITH SZ MUST be always feels,sees,hears,touch and react with
the internal symptoms ,but if you talking about the external symptoms that not be felt
by the sufferer,this is different matter and have not importance like the internal symptoms

i do not read medical article on the internet,it just incidentally
-taking about aspirin ,is purpose to give examples about the followed means
to deal with sz symptoms,to explain that you can not taking antipsychotics
forever like you can not take antibiotics forever ( take medication in necessity
if you feel a symptoms,after get rid you should get off medication too }
but as you see no one give attention for my examples

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9

There are two or three significant logical fallacies in your argument. You say that doctors cannot know sz from the inside, as if that means they can’t treat it. First of all there are doctors and nurses and researchers into sz who have sz. Lots of them. Secondly, you don’t have to have a condition or even understand it thoroughly to treat it. We still don’t know the cause of Type 1 diabetes but we keep diabetics alive quite effectively. Finally, you talk as if sz is always the same, there is no continuum of gravity, and as if human beings cannot understand descriptions. In other words, your whole approach argues for the impossibility of treatment. It seems to be just a form of catastrophizing.

10

you wrote:
1-You say doctors cannot know sz from inside,as if THEY CAN"T TREAT IT
-my answer YES

you wrote
2- "there are doctors and nurses and researchers into sz WHO HAVE SZ
-my answer YES
BUT if you think they can treatment schizophrenia
Why they still have schizophrenia "if they can treat sz " ?

you wrote;
3-we still don’t know THE CAUSE of type 1 diabetes but we keep diabetics alive quite
effectively
-what you said is vary different about sz condition because
a-you can classified the disease as type 1 diabetes,
while in the sz case,you can not diagnosis specific disease,can not know the type of sz,
can not diagnosis the inner symptoms,can not know the cause,can not find
a changes in the anatomical structures or abnormal chemistry or defective
gene responsible about producing the schizophrenia
b-above of all get off medication after one month keep,the schizophrenics alive quite
mental/behavioral effectively,while you can not see that in type 1 diabetics
c-schizophrenia do not causing specific organic disease even with its existence
in the person for lifetime,while taking medication for life time causing many organic diseases,and in the same time the cure do not achieved at all
d-is the meaning of term “improving the symptoms”,have the same meaning
of term "cure-recovery-get rid "

you wrote" you talk as if sz always the same "
=all schizophrenia conditions in the world is the same regard with the cause,inner
symptoms,but all must be different in the external symptoms { all what you know
about the sz symptoms except the hallucination
-the hallucination is constant factor
-all types of symptoms are variable factors (wherever the environmental condition,learning,
education,family relations,religion ,cultural frame and content,social mores,age,kind …etc
have a roles in prefix to the type of thought /behaviors outputs/responds
=against all your hopes and agree with nature,all schizophrenics individuals in the world
must be seeing imaginary people,hearing them voices and make up inner vocal
communication,this is the constant factor between all,and if that does not existed,the condition is not SCHIZOPHRENIA ,because hearing voices and seeing imaginary people
is type of sz cause activity in the mind-brain of the sufferer,and without that the person
does not feel sz case or suffer from its symptoms

you wrote"as if the human beings can not understand descriptions "
-in sum,human beings can views and describe all the external symptoms of sz
“except the hallucination”,but understand the symptoms and knowing the causation
mechanism,and knowing the cause of symptoms is another issue, it is the mother of impossibilities,you do not need to 20 years from research to understand,but you need
to 20 light tears for diagnosis the sz case,sz cause,inner symptoms

you wrote
your approach argues for impossibility of treatment
=If the psychiatrists can not diagnosis the existence of sz case by all
scientific means,can not diagnosis the inner symptoms “hallucination”,
this failure causing another failure in knowledge of the cause and its
functional activities
=this means that,the doctor do not know; how the sz cause impacts
on the brain biochemistry or mental processes ?
=this means that,the doctor can not find the specific medication
which have positive impact on the functional activities of sz cause,
but he can find many medication to correction-modification the changes
in the biochemistry of brain which has coming as a result of sz impacts
on brain chemistry
=this means that,all types of medication without exception have impact
on the biochemistry of the brain of sufferer,and there is no any medication in the world
have the ability to impact on the sz case,sz cause and inner symptoms which all of
these are one single thing so-called hallucination

you can treatment sz,but that does not causing realistic cure from it
there are a different between word “treatment” and "cure " in your language or any lang

11

Yes, you point out the fatal flaw in your own argument: treat and cure is not thesame thing. There are a great many other errors in what you say (no physical evidence, no genetic markers etc - there are all of these). I think it is a pointless discussion. You are behind the times on the research and you claim that there is such a thing as a “psychological organism”, a completely untestable assertion, completely unscientific, then you claim, falsely, that doctors have no scientific evidence that sz is a disease or disorder. You argue rationally in favour of irrationality. So I give up.

12

NO single physical evidence ,no single gene for schizophrenia
-if you know one single physical evidence for schizophrenia,
tell me what is that evidence,i will promise you, i never write
single word about schizophrenia

Look to what i say,and i confront you and all psychiatrists,researchers and scientists
and all world population ;
1-Schizophrenia is not a disease or illness in its essentioal nature
2-Schizophrenia causing a disorder /changes in the thought ,emotion,behavior+
and imbalance state in the biochemistry of the brain "can be treated "
-3- for all that,Schizophrenia does not causing physical disease

-you accepted the term “hallucination” “psychosis” although they are meaningless
tell us,how can you understand the meaning,concept and connotation of word “hallucination”

  • Term "psychological organisms- personal entities- non-human conscious creatures "
    are the realistic names instead of the fabricated name “hallucination”
    -I use “higher psychological organisms " rather to use the actual name " Devil "
    because all of you hate the existence of this name"devil” in the scientific issues, or deny !!

so that
=,the hallucination/ or sz psychosis is the existential manifest of the devil creature
=then the heard voices are the voices of the devil creatures
=then,the inner symptoms of schizophrenia that be felt by the sufferer are
the existential features of the devil,and this means that both of mind and brain
of the schizophrenic individual does not produce the hallucination symptoms !!!
=so that,there is no defective gene produce the inner symptoms “hallucination”,and there is no disease,there is no cure because you can not cure yourself from the devil himself by medication
Believe or not believe, accept or reject,nothing change

13

Good morning AbAt. Sorry I missed answering you yesterday. Just drinking my second cup of coffee. It’s still early here. Once I’m more awake I will reread your posts.

How are you today?

15

I moved our discussion since it appears to be upsetting to some.

I realize that your view point on what sz is, is based on your own experience. At least that is what I’m guessing. Do you experience ‘hallucinations’ and voices?

16

Please,understand the point
1- all schizophrenia cases in the world are the same and are not the same in the same time
-there are one single cause,has impacts on the cognitive,cultural,religious content of the person
=it is impossible to find two persons in the world have the same cognitive content ,cultural and religious,family,social and environmental,age,kind ,the details of psychological experiences,
personal mores,the personal temper , the relationship with other kind
even in any the twin,you can see some differences specially in the social relationship with the other kind
-if sz has occurs in a twin {girl and young},you should realize the aspects of the difference
in the changes that has occurs in the religious beliefs
=although both of them belief with one religion ,but each one has a changes in his beliefs
that different about the other ,because the cause of sz are adapted and conscious to changing the religious beliefs according to the personality of the host
-if you can study the impact of sz on the twin "girl+young " belief with the Christianity ,
you can have a deduction that,the cause of sz is conscious and adapted with the personality of the host to changing the conceptions of the religious beliefs

you ask the question;
do you experience “hallucination” and voices ?
1-what after you know ?
2-your question is an evidence to you,to know the impossibility to diagnosis
the things that so-called hallucination
3- using the word “experience” has prints your mind by false facts
because the hallucination has been located in the psychological existence of the sufferer
independent about his psychological volition ,thus the
sufferer has feels/sees/hears and /touch these features inside his own self,he felt these features as a manifestation of a whole entity,he felt the hallucination as a psychological creature equivalent to
his feeling/realizing with himself,so that he feels he is not alone internally

this hallucination has a pure ability to establishing inner bilateral dialogue between him and the mind of the host,to exchanges the mental thoughts around all possible issues {religious,cultural,…etc} to changing its conceptions to the worst !

so that ,do not say “hallucination and voices,because the voices is a single character
from the other rest of characteristics
this means that,the hallucinater creature can produce the voice"vocal audible thoughts” as a way of inner communication with the mind of the host,printing moved pictures of imaginary people in the own imagination screen and appears these pictures as a visual manifest of his existence
he can creation all feelings,the expression about the things,and can creating the understanding sense and can create the stupidity sense…etc

THE hallucination is a group of unity psychological /mental and emotional characteristics
have work together in complete harmony …do not forget that

17

I think I understand what you are saying. I can’t say that I agree but I don’t experience voices or hallucinations.

In another post you stated that you don’t talk about schizophrenia from personal experience. I guess I’m wondering why you are so interested in schizophrenia if it is not something that you experience.

18

You wrote{Even though Dr’s do not have sz and do not experience it,science can help to understand}

-in fact,science can help us to impact the brain biochemistry of the sufferer to change the imbalance state ,but have not any impact on the cause of sz to achieve the real cure

=the impact of sz cause on the mental processes causing imbalance state in the brain,and the main role of the medical science is to change the imbalance state to its normal level as possible,
the science can do medical intervention with all diseases or conditions to save the life of the victim without knowing the cause of the disease or the condition !!

simply,if the doctor do not know the cause,how can you treatment the case and havr realistic hope to achieve the cure?
-are you dream with the cure as a result of luck !

=but the science can not help us to understand the sz case or its symptoms or even achieve real cure , for many reasons,because the medical science has builds his main theories about the essential nature of sz , its symptoms and real cause wrongly !!

you can ASK ANY psychiatrist:is the medication have any impact on the cause of sz ?
-no
you should know that,the science do not know what is sz case? what is the cause of sz ?
what is the chemicals which have the ability to block the functional activity of the sz cause
in the mind or in the brain for lifetime ?

-Even if the doctor claims that the cause of sz is just an abnormal biochemistry in the brain,
it is impossible to find the suitable medication to modification the abnormality ,because there is no defective gene produces abnormal chemicals in the brain,even there is no abnormal chemicals in the brain of any schizophrenic
,BUT there are over activities of brain chemicals
(supernumerary activity -excessive activity }

-it is ideal talk if someone think that there is actual materialist disease or actual organic disease or actual chemical disease in the schizophrenic brain !!
because, there are supernumerary activity to the mental functions as a result of sz cause impacts, causing similar supernumerary activity in the brain biochemistry …that is all !

I am responsible 100 % about the credibility of this truth,and the evidence is the impossibility to find defective gene,abnormal biochemistry in the brain or anatomical changes {before,during the sz occurrence },because the sz cause is metaphysical factor,it is external not internal !
=above all,the cause of sz “metaphysical factor” is not sickness factor in its nature,it means that the cause of sz do not causing a disease/sick/ or illness for the victim !

=it is logical to find some behavioral symptoms in some cases seems similar to the behavioral symptoms of sz,regard to the eyes and observations of the external viewers,but it is so hard to them to know the differences aspects between the 2 types of symptoms !

You can tell me any similar symptoms,and i tell you the difference

19

Correct. It is not ideal however it is better then nothing.

While I understand your view point, I don’t agree with it. You believe what you believe 100% and I’m not sure that anything that I or anyone else says will change that. Have you ever considered the possibility that what you believe may not be 100% accurate?