Posting misinformed and slanderous @#$% about churches

That previous post entitled ‘Let’s all rob the church!’ was an absolute disgrace. But what was even worse is that it wasn’t left open long enough for the right of reply. So I’ll do it here in a new thread.

[quote]We’ll all bust their doors down and rob them all and give it to the needy like they are supposed to be already.
Who’s in?! Let’s all rob the churches and give it to the needy people of earth![/quote]

If only that piece of verbal diarrhoea were true. But what you would actually do is rob the church and keep the money yourselves. The churches (of ALL denominations) give to the needy and help them constantly. If you ever moved more than twelve foot away from your TV or computer screen of an average Sunday, you would see that. Only a few weeks ago, my church was collecting tinned food for foodbanks. What did you do?

[quote]We all know the churches don’t actually help the needy mal.
It’s all a scam.
If the churches of earth began to help the needy then there would be no needy people left.[/quote]

Perhaps you need to turn your fire on to the real cause of poverty, Capitalism. How do you suppose the churches can eradicate poverty with an ever-dwindling budget? They can barely maintain their own buildings. But pricks like you who make such sweeping generalisations will never understand this.

Yes, you CAN actually do that. Put your money where your enormous gob is. You can start giving NOW!!! You don’t need to wait for Christianity to fold.

It doesn’t seem to matter to you that the city banks have shiny super-phalluses built in every capital city on earth as monuments to their sheer greed. Oh no, leave them to it. If Christianity collapsed tomorrow, there would still be poor people. In fact, there would probably be more of them and their situation would be a lot worse. What this diatribe really is about is pure, rampant atheism dressed up as concern for the poor.

Best wishes,
Padster

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Your last quote was mine. You failed to actually address it. I happen to be an avid Christian. Not an atheist, thank you. The banks do not go around spouting about their goodness and giving. Churches do. Yes, I expect a lot from the people that I call brother and sister, shouldn’t I?

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Well, I don’t agree with ‘robbing the church’…but I do know some churches do NOT help the poor or help the poor very little.
Admin posted mainly about the Catholic church, but I can speak similar for some protestant churches.
They have the mega churches that literally build multi million dollar building and the pastors drive around in expensive cars and live in mansions. Almost all the money they put into these extravagant things comes from their congregations and people who watch their TV ministries who they beg money from… Many of the people are poor but are convinced to give 10% of their income plus offerings to ‘help’ the church.
I have been in a couple churches, while not mega churches, larger churches of 300 - 1000 members. Same thing went on…half the people in one church were on welfare and food stamps, while the leader of the church kept adding on to the church, lived in an expensive house in a posh community and drove expensive cars. They gave very little to the poor, and in fact robbed the poor by coercion. One particular church used to be part of the Assemby of God denomination but the AoG threw them out and they went independent…adopting all kinds of unholy practices, there were scandals, etc.

So I have to agree that a lot of churches exploit the poor rather than help them.
However, not all churches are like this so it cannot be a blanket indictment against them.

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‘Avid Christian’ is a odd phrase if ever I saw one. Perhaps it contains a deeper truth. A person could be said to be an ‘avid stamp collector’, i.e, someone who has a keen interest in stamps. It is an odd phrase to be using in matters of spirituality. I don’t think the Dalai Lama would consider himself an ‘avid Buddhist’, it is his life.

Where the banks are concerned, you seem quite content for people to rob each other blind as long as they do not moralise. It is a philosophy I suppose, but it doesn’t get you very far.

Best wishes,
Padster

In my town, if you’re hungry, you can go any night of the week to a church dinner. If you’ve got no place to stay they will put you up. If you need food then the food banks, run by local churches, will give you food. If you need help getting an apartment they will pay your security deposit. If you need clothes or furniture they’ve got you covered.

There are many church sponsored services in my town. Not all just Catholic churches either. To say they don’t help, when they do so much, is not only wrong but offensive.

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Churches that are known for operating as the Early Church did by not accepting any manmade creeds carry weight with me. Any church member seeking Yeshua deeply, I give credit to. With that said, I question all actions–even my own.

The title to “…Rob the Churches” is no more different in style than this article over at Battered Sheep: Does Churchianity Spit Upon Jesus Christ? Since this article is written by a Christian, the act to pray for healing for church leaders is forwarded.

The blasphemous Laodician Crystal cathedral built by Robert Schuller for 18 million dollars…
strangely they got a lot of money from their congregation and TV ministries, but borrowed money as well, then begged money to pay their debts, ending in bankruptsy in 2010

Beginning in 2010, creditors of Crystal Cathedral Ministries filed lawsuits to collect money due to them for providing goods, services and broadcasting The Hour of Power weekly TV show. A board member said that the total debt was $55 million.
The church’s board filed for bankruptcy October 18, 2010, citing $43 million in debt including a $36 million mortgage and $7.5 million in other debt.

And while the Protestants totally failed, look what happened…the catholics bought the thing…so look where all that churches money went!

On July 7, 2011, the Roman Catholic Diocese of Orange, which had long been seeking to build a new and larger cathedral in or around Santa Ana, announced that it was “potentially interested” in buying the church campus for future use as its diocesan cathedral.[13] Two weeks later, the diocese increased its initial offer of $50 million to $53.6 million which included a lease-back provision at below market rates for a period of time.[14] On November 17, 2011, a federal judge approved selling the Crystal Cathedral to the Diocese of Orange for $57.5 million.

Yes, I agree, if the preachers were preaching in the streets as Jesus actually commissioned or in small house churches and training people as they join to run churches in their own homes, all those millions could help the poor…but no…

Revelation 3:14 - 19
And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write: ‘These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God:
I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot; I would thou wert cold or hot.
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew thee out of My mouth.
Because thou sayest, “I am rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing,” and knowest not that thou art wretched and miserable, and poor and blind and naked,
I counsel thee to buy from Me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich, and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed and that the shame of thy nakedness may not appear, and anoint thine eyes with eye salve, that thou mayest see.
As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

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I think it’s all down to personal believe,I went to a church once only and was asked to put some money in a closed envelop,I did not put any and my granny only put a dollar just for the intention,I think church is about faith and help,more than money…if you don’t want to donate,I think no one could force you,I would only put one dollar too like my grandma just for the action,unless I am mega rich,maybe I will donate more…

I expect bad and immoral people to do bad and immoral things. I expect the righteous to walk the walk. I for one never heard Jesus tell someone “fill out this form to see if you are eligible and if you are we will perform a miracle”… Unlike most churches.

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Two things…

  1. Please don’t put profanity in the post subject line as that violates forum rules. I’ve had to edit it out.

  2. The last thread was locked because it was starting to cause a lot of fights. This one will get locked if the same thing happens. Would be appreciated if people could respectfully debate the issue and refrain from slagging each other, which will lead to another lock.

Pixel
(Wearing moderator hat.)

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I have a funny story. A couple years ago… in the next town over there is an outdoor shrine that is unattended next to a Catholic Church. There is a collection box next to the candles and statue. Its been there since the 1960’s and all of a sudden money went missing from the collection box and they couldn’t figure out how because the lock was on it and it wasn’t busted into. Well, they had this new young Reverend who was tech savvy. He put in surveillance cameras and linked it to his house so he could monitor it while he was home. The next week an old guy, like 70, pulls up walks up with a cane, prays, sticks the cane into the collection box. Pierces the money and takes it. The Rev has this on camera and alerts the state troopers. So they wait a week and sure enough the guy comes back. The Rev is sitting at home and sees the guy on his camera, he calls the troopers. The troopers get there in time to see the guy pull out of the parking lot. So they follow him. Guess where he goes? Down the street to the OTB! When they pulled him over and arrested him, they found that the cane had a nail or spike on the end of it to grab the money with to pull it out of the collection box.

Some churches do the sealed envelope thing, and a rare few actually leave an offering plate near the door so people can donate if they wish - no pressure.
The ones that pass the plate or bag I do not like…it puts pressure on people, and i have more than once seen people look at you funny if you only put in change, a dollar bill, or nothing at all…and what gets me is when a preacher is giving a message about tithing (which is actually an Old testament practice, in the old temple, and the church only had free will offerings)…even puuting guilt trips on people and using the verse saying you are robbing God if you don’t pay tithes ! That was for the Jews and the temple! And it was actually to distribute for the poor and provide food for the feast days!

I have seen things like ‘we can’t pray for you and properly deliver you from the demons you have unless you start coming regularly and be a part of this church…’ which also includes paying tithes to the church…
Jesus freely delivered people and then went on his way, just giving them a blessing…

http://prophetess.lstc.edu/~rklein/Doctwo/hunger.htm.

To be clear, I never commented that churches do not provide services. I stand by the fact that only one church out of seven is credited in Revelations as having offered proper worship and service. And I have read articles about how the Church needs to respond to the poor time and time again. An example is the above article. Hunger, Poverty and Biblical Religion written by Dr. Bruce Birch.

No person who cares for the poor condemns a person or church for offering services. The first thread was not about condemning decent folks or churches. And it sure wasn’t about keeping the money for themselves.

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I wonder how much the right wing churches that support the abuse and demonisation of the poor and the socially vulnerable actually give to charity. A lot of them are only interested in praying for the souls and well being of the 1-2%.

I am not religious but must admit that my father’s church does a whole lot of good helping the needy - very positive - not all churches are created equal though, I am aware of this

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Padster, I wanted to add I appreciate that you look out for the poor, of which I am, and for those who provide services for them. This New Years Eve, I like knowing there are strong minded individuals such as yourself who think of others.

“Blessed are the poor” Jesus said that in the beatitudes.

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My two bits on the matter:

Religion itself is not bad but some religious organisations usually cast bad impression about their religions.

First, When we say helping poor then there shouldn’t be any discrimination especially based on religion. Help should be for everyone! Whether they believe in God or not…and even if they believe in different gods and God…

The poor and/or needy who goes to any temple/mosque/church should not be expected to join the religion after being offered the help. That’s how I take the meaning of helping someone.

It may contradict with many religious beliefs but if you are really helping someone you should be less worried about others beliefs or whether the person will convert to your faith or not? If a person comes 100 times for help, one should help the person 100 times without being unpleasant. One shouldn’t deny helping just because the person is not changing his/her faith. Yes, there must be some check and balance if you are offering the help with money…Just to make sure that the person needs it for some genuine reasons…But for food it should be up for everyone. In all matters, the people should be helped while keeping their dignity intact.

I guess, those who are against religious organisations are mainly because of this reason. We cannot blame them for this because that’s what they have seen. Even many of them have been treated the way at some point in their life.

I think we must question on our ability to feel for other humans if we are offering genuine help based on someone’s background and/or faith. It doesn’t matter whether you are religious or an atheist…if you are denying helping someone because she/he doesn’t belong to your faith or they believe in some omnipotent being then you are doing wrong.

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Well my brother got sucked into this revival ministry down in Oklahoma , he always goes to there prayer center when they have conferences and he always sends the pastor of it money.

So I did some due diligence,
I looked up the prayer center - it is a private business. Not a government regulated church.
The pastor owns it. His wife is the co owner. They grossed 600k in 2013.

The pastor drives a rolls Royce. … Pisses me off.

what Pisses me off the most is they’ve convinced him that he needs to fast for weeks to rid himself of strongholds… wtf

So I agree there’s thinly veiled churches out there taking advantage. And also the mega churches are no better

Smaller Community churches seem to mean well

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I don’t think this guy was completely serious. I wouldn’t get too worked up about it. He did give you an opportunity to expound on the virtues of the church.

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