My psychosis started from trauma. My ex, father of my child, was a rather scary man and it took me 2.5 years of fighting in court to protect my child. He is out of our lives now, I “won” in court. In this period I used benzo’s and upon withdrawal I collapsed in my first psychosis.
My psychoses are very religious in nature. Maybe because my ex’s sister sent me very scary books/movies about some dark figure abusing a child, a devil coming to eat your soul, etcetera. These might have triggered something in the fearful period I was already in.
My psychosis had first some positive (great euphoric feelings of connectedness with God, nature, all humans and animals) and some negative (fear that the devil would capture me and my son). Later only very negative and dark. I see all the mistakes I have made in my life and how that led up to failing in life and becoming sick and now having lost all love (anhedonia from meds). This made me think I will go to hell for all eternity. I even dream of losing my soul and losing Gods love and walking in darkness. Having no feelings of love and joy anymore really feels like losing your soul… that does not help much.
I am very scared this is somehow REAL. That I will go to hell for all my bad deeds and for not being able to love anymore.
Using more meds does not make this thought go away. It just makes me feel more indifferent to everything and stare at the wall all day…but the scary thoughts always stay with me. Maybe even more so if I use more meds, because I am even more “soulless”.
Does anyone have difficulty deciding whether their delusions are real or not? How do you deal with this? How can I now what’s real… it’s not that I can actually check if God exists and if he’d have a nice place for me in heaven…Unlike more concrete delusions it’s just not possible to check this one. How do I overcome this terror?
I’m so sorry to hear about your situation. Do you have family or friends you can talk to? Anyone you can trust? Ask for reassurance!!
I think our souls are not negotiable, not up for sale, not able to be overtaken or removed. I think if we’re here in this very special place in the Universe, our souls are fine. Our physical challenges are many. I wish it was more fair in that regard.
For the sake of discussion and exploring your question (and NOT pushing religion), what if our souls are simultaneously in heaven AND on earth? Who wrote the rule that disconnection is the standard way that things are?
Someone wise said “The Father and I are one.” As an example being taught – and not an exception! It sounds very simultaneous, reassuring and secure! Perhaps our connection with divine is bigger and more constant than we realize.
Try to keep a lid on the fear, and practice drawing in more loving resources!
My mother once said, “I feel safe,” when she was having severe health difficulties.
But on a very basic note, how about this:
TED Talk: Dealing with the voices in my head
Next, Barbara Arrowsmith-Young turned a tragic condition into a life of meaning and fulfillment by growing new brain cells trained to fill in the blanks. The brain’s ability to change physiologically and functionally as a result of stimulation. http://tedxtalks.ted.com/video/The-Woman-Who-Changed-Her-Brain
Thank you so much for your long and thoughtful message. I loved the movies you have send and the way you think.
Today I felt a little better. There is still this fear of hell always in the back of my mind, but I was capable of setting it aside and care for my son today.
Religious beliefs that have gone awry owing to moral perfectionism are very common among sz patients. The “standard CBTs” (see below) are highly recommended for such beliefs, and learning the 10 StEPs thereafter should make it possible to jump up out of their “boxes” when The Voices get noisy. (Did for me, anyway.)
Work with that “psychiatrist” (or “p-doc”) to develop a medication formula that stabilizes their symptoms sufficiently so that they can tackle the psychotherapy that will disentangle their thinking.
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Get two or more of those “down,” and one can use the skills therefrom in this way to combat delusional thinking and emotional reactivity very quickly:
10 StEP – Pair A Docks: The 10 StEPs of Emotion Processing
Thanks. I think moral perfectionism is a major problem for me, yes. Even in kindergarten I would be extremely perfectionistic about moral things. Then I threw many morals overboard as a teen. And ended up feeling extremely sorry for all the “bad” things I did (as in: using alcohol and some drugs, sleeping with different men, getting pregnant out of wedlock, not as in: being a major psychopath or criminal) and all the good things I did not do (as in: volunteer more, build up more meaningful connections).
The rational part of me thinks it would be kind of cruel and weird for an all-loving, gracious God to send me to eternal torment in hell for this.
The feeling part of me keeps on judging myself. Especially for “making myself ill” and for not being able to forgive others.
A small candle light can move away an entire room of darkness with no effort on it’s part. It just lights up as it is meant to light up! You caring for your son is being the light for him. It is soulful to know what a great gift you are giving.
I’m the dad of a 20-something sz young man who is struggling. But your willingness to be here and help me understand, through your words, gives ME more hope. I thank YOU for that. You help me be gentle toward myself and others!
Yep. Fear of not being perfect is common among common folks, as well! (There really is no ‘common’, no ‘normal’ - just vast variations of what simply is “doing our best.”)
If we look at wise spiritual people as living the example (which includes overcoming difficulties), it frees us from the difficult struggle to be “ideal perfection” 24/7.
Being excellent, or caring, or extending friendship, or trying our best – is a wonderful way to appreciate the “spirit” we share in our journey.
@notmoses you rock! I bought the Surviving Schizophrenia book, and the first quote in the first chapter spoke volumes to me. Thanks! Very helpful.
BINGO. You got it!!!
If we feel we’ve done wrong, or goofed up, we can move toward healing - even in silent thoughts. Gently, one step at a time. No pressure. Check out the Ho’oponopono prayer. Even if we use this to forgive ourselves, it’s a step toward releasing the blocked-in energy.
I’m sorry.
Please forgive me
I love you.
Thank you.
Decide what you believe. No one can check to see if God is real. I choose to believe, and others choose not to believe. It only matters to the individual. Demons and angels are with me all the time. Is that true? It is to me, and as long as I don’t let the demons overwhelm me, then it doesn’t matter. I try to keep in mind the scriptures that are in the Bible, that I don’t just hear. What is said to me needs to match basic truths already established. Does God hate me? Will He leave me to these demons; do I belong to them? Nope, that doesn’t check out. Now, the whole thing seems delusional to some, but that doesn’t matter. My believing that God is faithful and loving is beneficial to me and I’m hanging onto that one.
As long as it is beneficial… because it sounds like you have loving, empathic and compassionate god.
Many here (unfortunately) have a rather judgmental, critical and threatening one. So. Is it that we have a god or not? Or is it about the particular god we have?
That’s right, and that’s my point. The demons, whose voices I hear WAY more than I ever hear God, unfortunately, are cruel, condemning, hateful and damaging. For many many years I listened to them. They might as well have been my gods because I let them rule my life. My choice to turn that around is fairly recent and due to CBT therapy. I choose to believe God loves me, and to no longer follow what the demons say. That is my established point of light that I look to no matter what I’m hearing/seeing.
Thanks, for sharing all your thoughts and your experiences. It helps me a lot to “talk” about this and hear how others feel about and deal with this. I decided to try and believe that God loves me - even if I can’t feel it and even if my thoughts and dreams tell me otherwise (I don’t have voices or hallucinations, but my inner thoughts continuously tell me I’m a horrible and doomed person and repeat all the mistakes I made that led to my illness). Like Hedgehog I will decide to ignore the negativity of my thoughts and try and focus on Gods love instead.
Thank you for these references. I don’t know what you mean when you say you have to work to hear them, or by “on the field” though…? Sorry…could you explain?
At one point I thought people were trying to get me to commit suicide. I still wonder about it. I can relate with your fear of hell. I’ve had a lingering feeling that I was damned for a long time. My approach has been to live the best life I can, and if God sends me to hell for that, he isn’t a very good God.
I began to dig deeply into research underlying the development of the cognitive and cognitive-behavioral psychotherapies that came to be the pre-eminent non-medicinal treatments for almost every psychiatric diagnosis there is in the 1980s and '90s. In so doing, I discovered that research had shown again and again that ignoring such thoughts, so-called “thought-stopping,” and so-called “affirmations” only work for a very small %age of patients.
Even Albert Ellis’s excellent REBT (see below) – as effective as it is for many – does not work as well when the chips are really down (as they are in borderlinism and complete psychosis) as do the more modern, MBCTs (also see below).
The reason why is that dealing with beliefs from inside the paradigm of belief often fails to yank the patient up out of his or her mental “cage.” The MBCTs (and even more modern somatic experiencing therapies; also see below) pull the patient out of his or her mind – the thoughts, ideas, images and words about what we see, hear and feel – into direct sensory experience of what is… vs. all the ideas, images, thoughts and words that are inherently inaccurate because they are not the experience itself.
The MBCTs are still considered “new” and/or “radical” by many in the therapy field’ the somatic therapies even more so. But having used them all personally and otherwise, I can attest to their effectiveness when the therapist knows how to use them… or the patient picks them up directly from workbooks.
Get two or more of those “down,” and one can use the skills therefrom in this way to combat delusional thinking and emotional reactivity very quickly: 10 StEP – Pair A Docks: The 10 StEPs of Emotion Processing
Block’s MBBT, in particular, is extremely effective for the sort of thinking you have described you hear in your head, as well as the subject of wildfire acceptance by a fast-growing # of MHPs.
Right on!!! Excellent choice!
Sounds like you’re choosing the way you “frame” thoughts and feelings - even which thoughts you just “put a drapery cloth over and store away for a good long time!” Perhaps? And equally, you shine up and display the BEST framed thoughts and feelings to appreciate whenever you wish!
I agree. Plus, I think we just physically feel bad sometimes, and it’s discouraging. (Add in emotional stress and it’s more discouraging.) In those times we may have to force ourselves to remember that unconditional love is always there. It’s ONLY CONDITION is it’s unconditionality.
@notmoses - You may not be moses, but wow your insights are incredible. I appreciate your dedication to digging deep into all this and sharing so many resources!!! Very encouraging for me! Thank you for being here!
I really believe in a faithful, forgiving and loving God. It’s my true belief, and the Bible supports that belief. I try not to thump that Bible because I’m not an Evangelist, and this site isn’t about religion or faith…I also try not to push the fact that I absolutely believe demons are following me around and taunting me, because I’m still trying to sort out what’s real and what’s delusion. I haven’t blanketed anything. I’m focusing on the truth so as not to believe the lies.
That is so hard for the psychotic mind… you’ll drive your self nuts with that.
It’s your choice to believe in demons and angels, you know? It’s a belief, but a choice. In fact, I chose not to believe in it, and I saw them and thought they were real because I saw them.
If you regard the bible as the every word in it literally the truth you’ll be stuck in it, and from what I’ve read it doesn’t support a forgiving loving God, but a rather vindicitve one. It’s full of ideals that the psychotic mind can believe to be true, when in fact are metaphores and should be regarded as such. For good behavior, for a fair society and all of that. Bear in mind that it was written in a completely different era as this one, when people needed something to follow. It’s all fine, but I worry about you and it seems like you’re really confused on what to believe, some part of your mind knows, because you’re an intelligent person, that those are all hallucinations brought on by social conditioning and an active imagination. Other part of you says those are real beings trying to make you harm yourself, that follow you around and tell you awful things.
The thing that most helped me here on this site was @Rhubot telling me very bluntly that what I percieved as demons were in fact just black shadows and it was my choice to believe them to be demons.
The sense of freedom from the established deluded knowledge I attained is immeasurable and I wish the same for you.
I don’t intend with this to change your faith not at all, you are entitled to seek comfort in that God of yours, but only to put the question mark in those beliefs. It’s alright to follow the bible as a big metaphore for reality issues, not alright to believe in every word it says as the absolute truth of reality, that’s dangerous for yourself.
I think no one can really know whether demons and angels and God exists or not. We just don’t know. I chose to believe in God. I hope there’s no demons, and I hope there’s a loving God.
Minnii, I can understand your view on the Bible…there are reassuring, kind, loving words in the bible, but also words that scare me immensely when I’m in a psychotic mood because they speak about a wrathful, angry, destructive God. I believe it should be read metaphorically and in the context it was written in. Not to be taken literally, no. But there are very beautiful parts of the bible that give lots of hope and guidance.
Hedgehog, I hope you can win the fight with your demons. You’re doing well focusing on a positive God. Look at the movie of Eleanor Longden. She came to see her demonic voices as part of her own experience, part of herself that was scared, hurt, etc. Maybe that’s a way for you to reconstruct your experiences and master them?
You got it!!!
