Let's put it in this context: Can suffering actually HELP you?

Instead of saying “Are there benefits of SZ”…I say, are there benefits of suffering??? I met this guy in a book named GI Gurdjieff. And he talks about the benefits of suffering and awakening in the long term. He says most people are dead inside that you meet on the street. And he speaks highly of suffering and struggling. Is he right??? I think SZ is an awakening disease because the struggle it brings us. We think we are wrong, even if we are KINDA right. Because we are battered and bruised. And by becoming battered and bruised it forces us to look at things differently which causes us to correct our philosophies and actions. The more society beats you around, the more you learn from it maybe??? And you change your principles and philosophies and actions. In order to avoid the same things from being repeated? We are not insane!! Because insanity is repeating the same thing over and over expecting the same results. But we SZ’s are constantly changing more than the general public because we experience such abuse and we are sensitive…so we change a lot. And eventually we find the path of enlightenment and awakening thanks to our illness in some cases.

Maybe others experience similar, but they are not as sensitive as SZ’s so they don’t call for action and change as greatly as others. This is where our sensitivity could provide valuable for us. We are vulnerable to search for correct action and dignity.

I wish some of the older SZ’s could chime in on this. Like 50+ and up. Do you think SZ has built moral character fixing in you because your sensitivity has caused you to change your principles somewhat. I know I still have a long way ago. But less long way than I did 9 years ago before I came down with SZA!

And I don’t think SZ will fix, animal cruelty, oppression of women, discrimination against other races and religions. But I hope less and less of us are that way to start anyways!!! Maybe it can fix some of those things because we tend to meet a ton of diverse people through our journeys and it can teach acceptance through exposure. So maybe that can be helped too.

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My brother taught me that Buddhists say that everyone suffers. At varying degrees, of course!

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I think that severe suffering makes you more human.

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I disagree, to some degree, @zeno! Severe, or extreme suffering, is mostly a waste of time for a lot of people. Believe me, it doesn’t get things done and you’re pretty much hardly ever happy. It can be learned from a little bit, maybe.

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I think it is human to suffer because we’ve been doing it for so long as a species!!! So maybe the people who have it easier in life are getting away from the humanity!!! OH the humanity!!! But seriously, by suffering it brings humility and oneness and stops you from thinking the world is a big pot of merry!!! And opens your horizons in so many ways…

We shouldn’t let this get to our heads though. As the point of getting rid the ego isn’t to add on to our ego, it’s to get rid of our ego… By getting rid of your ego, consciously, you build an ego about not having an ego. The individual needs to work on this notion by not letting your humility get to your head. It’s quite the conundrum.!!! But it’s what I need to work on at this point most of all. But I like discussing stuff like this.

I think we need to learn how to become more inclusive in this society as struggled sz’s. Instead of moping around complaining while simultaneously complimenting ourselves we need to learn how to use our great gifts to co-exist with others in this great society we have!! We have a lot to offer the world, but we don’t know how to do it yet. How do we do it?

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Thank you for posting this, it really struck a chord with me :slight_smile:

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Lol you’re welcome. I’m feeling very reflective, philosophical today. I am feeling upbeat though…positive. But realistic at the same time. Today’s a good day. I need more coffee :coffee: though.

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I definitely agree with this. I used to think I was a nice person, but I was actually very judgmental. I thought there was right and wrong, and people who did things I considered “wrong” were bad. But now I understand that sometimes things aren’t black and white, and sometimes a person has to make a wrong choice, because it’s the best option they have. I understand what it’s like to be desperate and alone, and fall victim to human weaknesses. And I understand that it doesn’t make someone bad.

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You Ma’am have developed a great deal of empathy then. Not saying your state of mind was wrong or anything before… no one’s is wrong, it’s just what people have been bred to know and think and there is always room for improvements. I think both me, and you, have come a long way in the last x amount of years. We are 2 good examples of what struggle can help you realize. And we have made improvements on our insight and will continue to! life is a beautiful journey IMO. A beautiful struggle.

When someone gives me a dirty look in public for no reason, I often say “If only they knew what it was like to truly struggle and get through it”. That’s the first thing I think! When I get that dirty look. Because how can you give a dirty look to someone if you know what it’s like to really have it rough and tough and then get through it. I don’t even know how to explain that one, I just know it’s true most the time those dirty looks come from people who haven’t found their true selves yet. Maybe they are going through a struggle at the time, but the benefits have not been grasped yet. It is hard for me to look at an individual and say they have had it easy because I know everyone has had it tough. But I know SZ’s as a group face a greater deal of struggle than your average person on an every day basis.

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There are different writers and philosophers who believed that suffering improved you. That which doesn’t kill you makes you stronger. I don’t think that is always the case. If you recover from the suffering without permanent damage you might improve from it. But a lot of the time people who suffer view their pain as a pointless catastrophe, which they resent. Sometimes suffering can make a person petulant. If they can’t keep their morale up when they suffer, their suffering can hurt their personality. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to understand and help every person who suffers. Every person who is in pain deserves to have his or her pain ameliorated.

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Thanks for your perspective.

When I was 21 I was very vulnerable and impressionable. I would believe almost anything told to me and I would give people far too much value for their level of intelligence and whatnot!!! I thought of the glass as full on peoples intelligence. Now I think of it as half full. Hey its better than half empty. But nevertheless… When I was 21 and I finally realized “wow I have struggled a lot the last 8-10 years or so” rather than being in denial about my struggling. Someone told me “The more you struggle, the more you learn”. So me being very vulnerable and impressionable, I heard this statement and BELIEVED it 100%!!! It is a beautiful thing because I have had a positive impression on suffering. Of course I haven’t consciously struggled, but I knew it wasn’t going to be easy to being arrested 3 times and 4 psych ward visits and 2 rehab stints in 2 1/2 years to get back to normal. So I embraced the rest of my struggling. There were suicidal thoughts in the process, but for the most part I thought there were some benefits of the struggle I was facing. So by having that mindset I think I have benefitted more than people who like you say resent their struggle. I know this sounds a little egotistic, but maybe someone who’s going through a tough time can half-embrace half-try to persevere through their struggles. I know it’s not possible to fully embrace, but if you can embrace a little, it could be beneficial. As it was with me.

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I congratulate you on your learning from your suffering, but I was thinking of a case more like someone getting their legs crushed in a car wreck, and not being able to walk again, or someone getting third degree burns over much of their body, or something like that. There probably are noble souls who rise above such pain, but there are also people who despair because of their massive injury and who become morose, petty, complaining, and difficult to be around. I don’t judge such people. I might react exactly like them if I was in their shoes, and I still think they are worthwhile people even if they are sour because of their suffering, but I don’t think you could say their suffering improved them.

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Yes I have met similar people. I try to empathize with them too. I always find it really admirable when someone who…lost their ability to walk…will make better contact with their spiritual side. I know its a movie but Forrest Gump, at first Lieutenant Dan was in misery after losing his legs, but it benefitted him in the long run. Not everyone could be so lucky and I don’t judge people who are not. But I am greatly impressed by people who do find a spiritual aspect out of it. Maybe it’s a little easier with schizophrenia, but I think in some ways its just as difficult. It could take away a lot of good successful things from our lives. The illness that is… I think our biggest assist is that we start having these unusual beliefs about God and religion and whatnot. That even when our unusual beliefs disappear, the spirituality often sticks with us. That’s because of the brain disorder. So someone with 3rd degree burns may be more likely to stay sour and I can’t blame them for that, when sz you believe you’re Jesus and then you stop believing you’re Jesus but have benefited spiritually from the whole notion (what I experienced/am experiencing).

But at the end of the day it could go any way. You are right not to judge for people who go in different directions. But I think when struggling benefits us it is an IMMENSE benefit in many cases.

I agree. At times I feel humiliated that some little quirk in my brain can defeat me. It can be force fed humility. I always believe in making the best of a situation, though.

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I really could have done without my suffering. At the time I saw absolutely nothing helpful or positive about it. If I think hard now, I can see that it made me more human after the fact just for the fact that most people have also suffered and can appreciate the struggles in life of other people But at the time it was actually happening it was pointless, painful, frightening, uncomfortable, etc. And those are feelings that I do not like having.

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@77nick77 I didn’t know you before your great deal of struggles from SZ but I can say for a fact you are easily one of the most humble, down to earth, humane people if not the most on this message board!!! I look up to you for all you’ve been through with SZ and all you’ve persevered through and done and continue to be doing!!! So if nothing else, if you don’t think the struggles have benefitted YOU much at all, they have not come at no benefit, as you brighten up the days of many SZ’s throughout the globe every day with your humble, insightful posts, jokes and experiences!! We thank you for that!!!

I get the feeling you were a real good guy before SZ too. I don’t think I was a bad guy either myself. But even if your moral compass hasn’t changed for a 180 from SZ, I think you definitely have gained a lot of insight which benefits many people daily, and probably benefits you to help out other people as well.

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I’ve heard of people who have followed Gurjieffs teachings. I own an audiobook about him but haven’t gotten to listening to it. He talks about being conscious a lot,

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I like him. You can get some good stuff from him for sure!!! I wouldn’t follow him but I would read it and take little bits of pieces. Then again I wouldn’t follow anyone, but I have followed Alan Watts and Osho in the past when I read them. But I learned my lesson not to put too much measure into one person.

I have the book “The Fourth way of consciousness” or something I think it’s called from him. He’s an above average philosopher. Somewhat extreme and would be cultish to follow him 100% of the way. But you can get insight from him.

Yes. Suffering has helped me strengthen myself, it’s helped me become stronger and able to face challenges life has to offer.

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You are VERY strong @anon80629714!!! For a young looking woman like you, you have a lot of spunk to you!!! And resiliency. Wouldn’t wanna mess with you on your worst day!!! Wooo-eeee.!

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