James Holmes

Has anyone hard about the verdict in the James Holmes case? Several days ago, he was found guilty of first degree murder. At first, I agreed with the verdict; I had read that he planned the crimes in advance and therefore knew what he was doing and that the independent psychiatrist found him sane (i.e. guilty). That was what I thought until I actually sat down and read the notebook of his shootings:

NOW, I wonder how those aren’t the writings of someone mentally ill. I mean, every second line is nonsensical. There are signs of incoherence, derailment, loss of goal, etc… How then is that notebook not showing strong evidence of someone with formal thought disorder? And if his motives are in that notebook and are all based around thought disorder, then how is he not criminally insane? Because of this, I’m really wondering how the jury and the court appointed psychiatrist could come to that verdict. In any event, that’s my opinion. I’d like to hear what you think.

1 Like

He was definitely severely mentally ill. Most sz’s don’t shoot up theatres though. I’ve only been fully psychotic once and I can definitely understand someone in that state of mind hurting themself or someone else, but not planning it for months. If it was a couple weeks, I’d say it could just be blamed on his specific episode.

He was going to a pdoc so it seems like he should have been taking APs at least part of the time he was planning it.

Being mentally ill does not give you a free ticket to murder anyone. He may be seriously mentally ill but he was competent enough to carry out that attack. I don’t know all the idiosynchricies of the law but he was fairly tried in a court of law. Now he must pay for his crime.

3 Likes

The jury was able to study James Holmes in detail. Considerable planning went into that shooting, so that argues for foresight. The crucial distinction is whether or not he knew right from wrong when he committed the crime. I guess the jury decided he did. I’m glad I didn’t have to make the decision for his case. It must have been wrenching.

Twenty doctors agree that James Holmes has schizophrenia, a mental disorder that has been described as “young person’s dementia.” But the fact of his illness did not prevent Colorado jurors from finding the young man, who opened fire in an Aurora theater in 2012, guilty of 24 counts of murder in the first degree, two counts for each victim. After the verdict, a girlfriend of one of the victims declared, “This is a huge step forward.”

1 Like

Being able to plan a murder is something cognitive, which is not always impaired in psychosis. His reasons for murder are in that notebook, which appear to be a sign of thought disorder. How then does he really understand what he’s doing if his reasons are psychotic?

2 Likes

Plenty of psychotic people don’t murder other people. He was just a bad person who’s mental illness contributed to his actions but it was not the sole cause of his actions.

1 Like

I am glad they found him guilty. I don’t care what he wrote in his notebook. Aurora massacre was horrible.

1 Like

He was also playing those realistic violent video games probably to get used to the feeling of actually killing people for real. I think there should be more restrictions on selling them to the general public like guns have. But that said a really violent and intent person would just break the laws to get what they need to commit such a crime anyway, but we should at least make it more difficult for those who would not otherwise go through the proper lines to possess the means necessary to go through with their crimes because of the restrictions placed on their sale. I really don’t think they (violent video games) should be sold at all, personally, although I see the need for our youths to vent their frustrations about lifes’ situations this way. I think they may create the need in the user to try and satisfy an ever growing need for the experience to become even more realistic and “interactive”.

1 Like

Thats the thing, he could have just been a bad seed

1 Like

Psychiatrists, teachers, local relatives and parents should be held accountable to a certain degree.

I feel sorry for the guy. His life is hell now. And this came about because of his anger. If only he got treatment sooner.

I have a little sympathy for him but I think the families of the victims of the shooting deserve way more sympathy than him.

1 Like

How sorry would you feel for him if it was your mother or your sister who got shot to death in the theater that day?

1 Like

I’d give 50 likes if I could. Glad someone shares the same viewpoint as me.

He doesn’t. When you’re psychotic, you have lost touch with reality and your thinking is very distorted.

Here is a statement from his parents:

"The parents also said that before the shooting, their son “never harmed anyone and he had no criminal history.”

In a court filing last year, Holmes’ attorneys said the former doctoral student in neuroscience was in “the throes of a psychotic episode when he committed acts that resulted in the tragic loss of life.”

Source: http://kdvr.com/2014/12/19/james-holmes-parents-speak-out-say-son-is-not-a-monster-should-not-be-executed/

A little more on his history:

In his words, ‘I have fought for years to overcome my biology,’" public defender Daniel King told the jury as the trial began. “He lost that struggle with his mind to a disease. A disease called schizophrenia.”

And that disease, King said, is inherited. Arlene’s father was diagnosed with psychosis, King said, and “hospitalized after wandering his Carmel yard, naked.” Their son’s attorney spoke as if they were not sitting there, stoic. Their son still had not looked at them.

But there was more.

Robert’s father first experienced mental illness as a West Point cadet, and his twin sister was diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder and disabled for most of her life. “She takes meds,” King said, “but still periodically gets bad enough to be hospitalized.”

Still, there was more.

The shooter, the lawyer said, tried to kill himself at age 11, and as a high school sophomore began having “intrusive, unwanted thoughts telling him to kill people. They continue to this day.” He was “blessed and cursed by his genetics. He is very smart and loaded for mental illness.”

Source:

Only in the USA (of all civilized , developed countries) do they execute the mentally ill on a regular basis. In every country in the world people have schizophrenia, but only in the USA does everyone have easy access to guns. We have a long way to come as a society.

1 Like

But @SzAdmin, it was pre-meditated. How can you say on one hand he didn’t know what he was doing but on the other hand he made methodical plans by himself. It seems that pre-meditated mass murder of that nature, requiring guns, ammunition, and timing, and careful plans for two weeks ahead of time requires you to know what you’re doing.

But as in a lot of things in life, not everything is black and white, and not everything is cut and dried. Yes, he has our disease which alters are thinking and our actions in horrible ways. But I don’t think you can say that he bears no personal responsibility for his actions. I can imagine how his parents must feel and I think parents everywhere must sympathize with him to a degree. Because many of them must be thinking, “There but for the grace of God goes my son or daughter”.

Obviously, schizophrenia played a huge part in his actions but it wasn’t the only factor. maybe he’s not a nice person. Anyway, mass murders of this type are relatively rare; it’s just high profile news jumped on by the media. Of course, something where it was so many people is justifibly a huge story and the American public thrive on violence and sex in the news. ’

But people like this guy are definitely in the minority. But each case should be taken separately not lumping us all together. So thus I see the sense of your post above, mental illness is such a touchy subject and one guys action impacts a lot of us. Not all of us, but a lot of us. And it’s shame that he spoils what little we all get out of life because we have schizophrenia. It makes us get even less.

But he got his day in court and I would not want to be in his shoes right now. Lots of people have insanely hard lives and endure mental and physical abuse as children growing up but they don’t kill people. James Holmes was a bad egg who unfortunately for 23 people paired his schizophrenia with his innate meaness to commit this horrible crime. I hope he gets help and medication in prison, I wouldn’t begrudge him that in the least.

He opened up in gun fire in a theater full of strangers? You don’t have to convince me he wasn’t thinking right!

Jayster

2 Likes

I would like to study in depth the legal doctrine of knowing or not knowing right from wrong. There must be specific criteria for that distinction. I could argue that any teenager is so addled he doesn’t know right from wrong.

Is this the kid with the bowl cut who shot up an African American church? I’m confused.

I blame his haircut.