Schizophrenia.com

I am a reformed believer in the anti-psychiatry movement

That’s right. I used to be adamantly against the concept of psychiatry for many reasons and dreamed of a rebirth in the movement against it.

I didn’t exactly start out with this belief though. I at first was someone who had put absolute trust and faith in the hope that psychiatry could cure me of my (pre-onset) misery and discomfort.

I having been after nine years as a depression and anxiety patient been told that I could probably not be helped and that no pill was going to right what I thought was wrong, began to become rather disillusioned with the field of psychiatry.

Though still seeking help in times of crisis I was locked in a constant struggle with any doctor who tried to help me. I was however very alone in my struggle. I found that while some people told me that they could relate to my criticism of the profession they just didn’t care enough to join me. I also found that those who seemed willing to join me in my anti-psychiatry stance were in fact some of the most sick and suffering who I found myself unable to in good conscience direct them against what was probably going to help them most.

I have since in life given up my stance as totally against psychiatry. I now see a psychiatrist once a month or so who seems to be someone I can work with. This was not however a complete about face I made in returning to psychiatry for help. I still see a whole lot that can and should be improved on and even changed. But I see taking my old stance as against something that simply needs improvement as counterproductive. I occupy more of a gray area these days and having found what works for me I’m sticking with it.

As a former believer in anti-psychiatry I do however still hear things said on this forum that rub me the wrong way but I simply choose to generally hold my tongue. As much as I post regularly here I am really here to keep an open mind in furthering my understanding of this illness and those who suffer from it.

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I am critical of psychiatry and believe it is in need of improvement but i am not anti psychiatry/wanting it’s total destruction.
To me anti psychiatry,especially it’s more fanatical elements, wants to destroy without replacing with a constructive alternative. To me the essential question is not ‘does mental illness exist?’ but how are people in distress and/or not functioning well helped.
Is medication the only choice /answer that should be available, or ,given the heterogeneous nature of people’s experiences and symptoms ,do we need a broader range of approaches tailored to the individual?
I am not anti meds, and accept that they have helped countless people, but question whether they are as good as they are hyped to be. My experience of them has been relatively minimal in terms of side effects and mediocre in terms of therapeutic benefits. There is no doubt they help with some symptoms but after 39 years of anti psychotics and/or mood stabilisers and antidepressants I can not say I have achieved recovery or good functioning. Of course the $64K question is how much worse would I be without medication.
One area I think mainstream psychiatry rather neglects is sociological factors in the causation and effects of severe mental illness.Even after the diagnostically ‘relevant’ symptoms have become less acute/prominent there’s still a social effect that psychiatry by and large ignores.
Also should psychiatry seek to treat divergent/eccentric thinkers in the absence of distress and difficulties with functioning ? If so does psychiatry’s primary purpose become one of social control?

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I too am not anti psychiatry nor am I anti medication - I do however feel that their is a need for ‘better’ more competent, more communicative psychiatrists. I do question the quality of many psychiatrists, i am lucky to have found a very professional, competent doctor who does not like to BS me.
As for the medications, their needs to be more effective meds, ones that do not cause damage to our systems.
If I take a look at the quality of psychiatrists that I have seen in the past - none were considered to be of good quality.
Too many of them were too busy over medicating me and they were not concerned for my physical or social well being.
I mean my last psychiatrist concerned herself with my physical well being, making sure I had frequent blood tests done, but she really knows little about antipsychotics and mood stabilizers - she was too busy prescribing benzos and SSRI’s to her other patients, many of them who were unsatisfied, neurotic houswives

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Im pro-psychiatry and also pro-psychology. Psychiatry and psychology together make for the best treatment and best outcomes. I was socially dysfunctional without psychological treatment.

i am pro basically anything that helps us to improve in some way or any way, anything that helps us is good so things that help

  • psychiatry
  • psychology
  • nurses
  • cbt
  • support
  • therapy
  • ourselves

and many more things help, would be nice to have like an exploded wall chart of things that help and the different branches off of them etc.

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I used to be anti-everything because… even though I was different, it was THEM who were the problem. I was just trying to get through my day.

But as I’ve grown up and ended up on the path I’m on… I’m not Anti-med or anti-psychiatry any more. Just like @firemonkey, I wish things were getting better quicker… but I know that there is a lot more research being done now and things are moving forward.

I do look into supplements… and other alternatives and discuss them with my preservation team, but the supplements are AS WELL AS, not instead of my meds and other traditional forms of treatment.

I am somewhat anti psychiatry. If it is spiritual based with an understanding of other planes of existence, multi dimensions, quantum explanations for phenomenon experienced, then i am cool with it. Carl Jung I can deal with because of his understanding of archetypes and how he seemed to be on the threshold of other dimensions.
Strictly secular type psychiatry that labels everything unexplained as a hallucination or delusion I am against. I am also against psychiatrists throwing meds down peoples throat, experimenting with different meds, the whole business of the link between psychiatry and big pharma for the sake of a multi billion dollar industry and profit.
I like what my last counselor said, that meds should be a last resort. And that not every vision and voice is a delusion, some can be spiritual.

A rather radical, though correct assessment by some Christians regarding Psychiatry…

"Psychiatry is founded upon the “biological/chemical model” which is opposed to the “Moral/spiritual model” revealed in scripture. Psychiatry views man as wholly physical, just a bunch of chemicals and denies the both the existence of God and the spirit of man.
Psychiatry openly mocks and ridicules God and Christians, calling Christian theology “foolish, misleading and obsolete”. The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders is called the “Bible of Psychiatry”. The DSM-IV is the central and most important book for classifying and diagnosing mental illnesses in North America. The most recent edition (2004 AD) has this to say about the Christian view that man has a spirit that is distinct from his body: ““organic” versus “non-organic” dichotomy foolish and obsolete” … “misleading derivative dichotomies” “Ryle’s exorcism of the “ghost in the machine” (DSM-IV-TR Guidebook, 2004 AD, p 85, p14)
Saying, “Psychiatry is a vicious enemy of Christians” are harsh words. The truth is, the only one’s that are unaware of this are Christians! Psychiatry openly declared war on Christianity over 100 years ago! Psychiatrists are trained to subvert Christianity. Christians are simply ignorant of the battle by confusing Psychiatry as a legitimate field of medicine. When Psychiatrists read this page their response is: “Those dumb Christians! We have been kicking them around for 100 years and they finally caught on! The cat is out of the bag! What took them so long?”
There are Psychiatrists who reject the Biological/chemical view, but they are very rare! The Biological/chemical view is taught as a foundation in Psychiatry just like evolution is taught as a foundation to biology.
Psychiatry today, is a direct outgrowth of atheism, humanism and evolution denying God and teaching man is a mere animal.
Psychiatry is philosophically opposed to Christianity: A psychiatry industry study confirms psychiatry and Christianity are at war!”

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I’ve heard that meds are less effective in treating personality disorders.

I have a few complaints about individual psychiatrists or therapists I have seen over the span of 34 years. I’m not anti-psychiatry though. I think it’s like a lot of issues, some people take a position and take it to the extreme, in this case, denouncing everything about psychiatry and meds. When you deal with humans you will always have human error, nobody’s perfect. And everybody can have instances of being fallible. If you go into see a mental health worker, don’t expect too much. You see all the time in entertainment news that even big stars and the top actors who are at the top of the heap with wealth, success, fame, popularity, etc., everything they dreamed of in life, can STILL get their feelings hurt by bad reviews or criticism, some of them even go into deep depressions because of a failure. Sure psychiatrists are trained to take abuse and keep a calm head, and must have a thick skin, but they are not immune to getting defensive. I don’t expect them to cure me. I mainly just go in and blab about my life.

That is what they say in terms of overall effect but how they work on certain symptom areas is more favourable. Of course it all depends in my case whether the diagnosis is accurate or whether it would be truer to say I have mild psychosis with personality problems. In terms of how well my current meds regime works mild psychosis with personality problems would probably fall between pure psychosis and a pure personality disorder.
Treatment wise therapy is the first option for PDs but I am deemed unsuitable for therapy and receive treatment in terms of medication primarily aimed at alleviating psychosis.
Of course one way of assessing a medication is not necessarily how well you do on it but what happens if you don’t take it. After a while you can get so used to how you are on meds that you forget how you were beforehand. I think re schizophrenia and other psychotic disorders there are things that antipsychotics are designed to treat, but other areas where antipsychotics have a limited effect.

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Sigmund Freud would probably say my prognosis for psychotherapy wasn’t good. I intellectualize everything. It’s almost impossible for me to stop. When I spent a year in a private psychiatric hospital I felt like they could just observe my social behavior for a while and tell a lot of what was wrong with me - not much - twenty or so minutes for three days would do it.

I find it annoying that someone can kill a person, or rape a person, or torture person to death, etc., yet they will simply be sent off to prison if caught.

In other words, in today’s world, these actions are still currently accepted as being the acts of a completely SANE mind.

Yet other minds that are far far far far far far less destructive, are classified as delusional minds that can’t tell the difference between fantasy and reality. In turn, the so called “mentally ill” are kept at a distance from society, while at the same time people are willing to live in the neighborhood of, and shake hands with, killers, rapist, sadists, etc.

Thus we have field of psychiatry that refuses to take on a bigger responsibility.

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that’s because they fear mentally ill people will become killers, rapists and sadists…truth is only a small percent do…while most people who do those really bad things are considered normal. Even those who are sent for psych exams to determine if they can stand trial are cleared… insanity pleas rarely work…and some normal people pretend to be insane to try and get lighter sentences and a dose of seroquel so they can sleep off 3/4 of their sentence!

“Quetiapine has been cited in several recent reports of being abused, especially in prison settings under the name “baby heroin” and “quell.”

Please, just don’t harass people still using the meds/psychiatrist/disability pay. Some people got stuck in a bad community with a lot of sick part-time psychotics & got ruined at multiple employers which has drastically declined quality of work available…Some of these victims have a family and still get to deal with churches that think God calls them to harass anyone on ‘the check’, even if it means harassing someone at work dealing with life/death situations. Some cities have terrible problem with this – called gang stalking/thought broadcasting/cause stalking. There is a ton of anger directed at anyone who is getting SSDI/SSI, even if person is trying to get more education to work or tries to take a job that will pay the bills. Mental care policy is to call this delusional, causing confused to go insane to sell more meds. If you ever show any anger with your mental care provider you can be forcibly hospitalized at your own expense for months even while acting normally. You will lose your job and can become homeless…

BTW: The folks getting church counseling are usually left borderline nuts too and used as the church freak to bother newer parishioners who are unwelcome or unproductive. Some churches do have a policy to gang stalk people if the voices (aka God) demand it…Some non-denomination and pentacostal churches will mistreat someone and it is shocking how screwed up a stranger will act toward someone experiencing schizo…Some of the folks hiding in biggest churches will screw a coworker badly out of employment if the voices demand it but the employers (even govt) will hang onto these before the good people…This is really bad situations with sexual harassment at some offices with women who just got mental care being ruined by one of the office problems so he might have a chance to land an unemployed, ruined female coworker. Worse, the woman’s life becomes a schizo witch-hunt of an unwilling mistress, pursued by mental care, community and her abuser without any protection from the courts or cops, worse she will be ruined for complaining much…Some of the businesses have a one-up-man-ship thing going if this crap starts up and everything in the office is a dirt-bag competition…

So right and wrong, allowed to even get the basics to survival (employment, housing, food) are sometimes denied…Humans have only been able to accomplish on regular basis - perversion, sadism, luxury, class/castes and greed - goodness only comes in little spirts of random acts of kindness…Or, employs some charity workers who get paid to ‘be nice’ and give away the garbage of the wealthy & one meal to celebrate what they don’t have at Xmas…

What does this country get for failing to leave most of the tax payers to work? A minimum wage society we that will not pay the bills the US politicians are making. All the jobs (even speaking english) can leave this country as the management of large companies as purchased by China, India and Arab countries during the last market crash leaving this country to go broke & slip into more drastic decline, like Detroit which the mayor wants to completely demolish. Rest of the manufacturing can go to Mexico due to free trade agreement…You know Chinese, Indians and Mexicans will be able to work okay dirty cheaply…Greed will kill this country but this is bragging rights for our competition, isn’t it?

To understand Christianity, you have to understand unwilling mistress women are being pursued by sexual predators using the voices. Ex-wives of wealthy are being ruined…Crazy is a product available to ruin your business or college rival…the perpetrators of which have a running joke about being Anti-Christ. Many churches have nothing to do with love, care for and support one another either…It is a cat-fighting match, nasty gossip, judgment and social events club with doormats who get used up and wore out as slaves. This, God thing is just the part-time psychotics of the church and Republicans tormenting people they put on a welfare check then torture with mental care…Some churches openly practice this crap too or treat an unwilling mistress to the spread of terrible rumors to affect her employment then openly shun the woman for running away from someone who is called a monster…The cops/DA in many large cities ignore these kind of abusers who put many people on disability payments/stalk/batter or worse, wealthy men who do not work and get to spend most of their time trying to harass a poor women into some submission or illegal activity. Some pastors promise their parishioners ‘the good life’ but they are treating some people like a piece of ■■■■ in exchange…I just exercise Grace and ignore crap without comment most of the time & I keep my life private.

Just be okay… If you understand everything, you have shelter/food & you can feel okay, you have it so much better than many. Keep busy enough to keep moving…The exercise in daylight does seem to lift depression somewhat after 2 months so do consider it…

I think this anti-psychiatry push is just a cyclical movement to harass some of the local victims of psychosis to remind who is lord. At the same time, I’m seeing a very disturbing amount of disrespect for the functioning of people in mental care by the psych doctors in order to really reinforce drug compliance…no matter what cost.

This is another election issue to write to your politicians about…
Respect workers, the worn out people on unemployment/disability and respect the financial integrity of the country. Mental care reform is desperately needed to provide supports to anyone in crisis with intent to move the person back to work as soon as able, not get person fired and move them to SSDI/SSI. Mental care needs to be so much less about medication and more about developing coping skills/improving functioning, education and return the tax payer to work.

I’ve had my anti-spychiatry phase. I passed it, fortunately, and now I can benefit from the latest treatment science has to offer. Is it irreproachable? No. But it is the best thing there is, for the time being.

There. My thoughts for a penny.

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Relevant comment from ‘Can schizos work’ posting:

Function and education level prior to onset of symptoms will dictate later employment capabilities.

You also have to deal with mental illness stigma in your community. Some places want the formerly psychotics working only in retail or fast food. You also have to see what personal issues your coworkers have had with mental illness amongst friends and family…Some employers will make a push to get you fired on the slightest mistake or make it a hostile work environment to move you out. However, I’ve had GREAT experiences just going into the interviews, keep my diagnosis private, discuss any accommodations I might need to work tasks and just keep my life (and dramas with others) out of the mix. These situations are only good working in the back - as a public facing employee, I had every kind of confused person come into the business due to orders from the voices to make a stressful job that is life/death to customers even worse. Working in back can be great. Or you can end up with some coworkers who are gang stalkers (part-time psychotics) who think they need to verbally harass you through out the whole work day even if you don’t discuss anything private so wear headphones. Expect this kind of crap from strangers called gang stalking/cause stalking/thought broadcasting. Read up on this and realize mental care refuses this and calls it delusional. Therapy refuses to assist at all. You can never get angry with your mental care provider or you will be hospitalized against your will for months at your own expense resulting in loss of employment and maybe homelessness…You can also hear your boss or coworkers talking loudly & convincingly in the next room and it is fake (even in life and death situations) so only take orders from a person standing in front of you or called you on the phone.

Cognitive symptoms of psychosis can cause problems so you need to be selective about the job tasks - something where you can run off a list is useful. It need not even be a simple, repetitive job either.

Remember, it can even be possible to ask for accommodations of regular work schedule, fewer hours, less work with public or work from home as your workers are being too disruptive (due to the gang stalkers)…However, smaller businesses can decline these legally. Oh, my. I even saw a data entry workplace with one lady who verbally harassed the whole bunch and they could not fire her yet…the whole office had to run silent and use instant messaging on computer for all discussion to catch her in her problem, forcible get her mental care then terminate her. However, employment in this particular city runs this way with craziness as #1 job task and job duties #2 for many so I left the area…

Lastly, I have bad news on re-education attempts. Some people report being bullied out of college by crazy professors plus harassed even in group projects by mentally unstable students…I attended a school that had been sued for this & retained these instructors. Court upheld the school’s right to require all mentally ill students to use Disability Support Services in order to be treated fairly (even if acting right & attending class regularly)…Worse, local city mental care situation is so bad, it was impossible to get any new mental care to cooperate. If you try one of these schools with student loans, you can be forced to pay these back immediately if you drop classes … At another school, same thing is beginning to happen after wrong professor was hired who sexually harasses students and makes it difficult to pass…even some of the long-time staff are leaving this place now as they cannot get rid of this instructor & they didn’t want any either. Re-education moneys are very limited for anyone with an existing degree, however if you get a Pell grant and run into these kind of messes, you can be forced to pay it back immediately if you leave the school due to disability discrimination. I strongly recommend you try 2-3 classes and pay cash before you decide to even enter a school with Pell grant help, or just finish your piece of paper degree online. -------After dealing with enough of this crap from schools which once treated me like a valued customer & I get to pay back loans for years only to be mistreated in classes, I am self studying for all additional education as I already have a Bachelors. There are some nice online training libraries like Lynda.com available for small reasonable fee plus last version of text books is always available for under $10 on bn.com or amazon.com. I’ve taken some college classes with instructor using videos to teach the subject and he had to google questions on his main subject – this is a disappointing departure from university situation I had used 15 years prior. This is not worth paying for any longer sometimes after you already have a degree.

Lastly, there has been a recent decrease in support for mental care amongst some churches & general public sending these folks out to harass victims of schizo into giving up the check…this has been discussed here too on this forum. Be aware, stories exist regarding victims giving up the mental care and beginning employment being ruined even by Walmart employers – then they had no way to pay for medications even as they let the health care go too plus you cannot get your disability check back if you were fired. It needs to be mentioned too I’ve noticed a lot more pressure on the part of numerous psych doctors to try to destroy patient functioning/employment/social network in order to sell more drugs unless patient is really reserved & undemanding. Additionally, some prior written works by psychiatrists have bragged about lowering people from rocket scientists to toilet cleaning janitors even if the victim was still trying to work in their field – you know these hotshots have mouth and attitude that will get them tortured by mental care. I can speak from personal experience that trying too hard to work or socialize in your community can result in a work blackball if you chose to terminate either due to social mistreatment in a group or work situation you could not tolerate/sustain. I met the wrong people gang stalking through a church and worse through some social groups so once-nice persons in my neighborhood are now giving me the silent treatment and even calling me names after I just tried attending a local church & worked a little around this neighborhood in desperation jobs. Don’t take any part-time jobs with the employers where you might want to be hired full-time so you can keep this option open when you feel up to working more & supporting self. I think it best we all exercise caution when dealing with gang stalkers who are upping the social pressures to ‘get off the check’ and just work on our own employment skillset & stand by. I have really cut back on the social obligations because I just don’t like the people with whom these activities brought me into contact, all the demands for labor or money I cannot satisfy and more waggling tongues who want to spread rumors. We may all need to speak up together to get treated right & given protected work status through affirmative action-type status…(It can be fine to work part-time on SSDI if you keep your income below $700 a month while SSI rules will result in a cut in medicaid eventually so do talk to a benefits planner available through you government mental health care office before you make a decision…)

It needs to be noted that many of these gang stalkers are so sick with their own mental problems they are not able to hold down jobs for more than a year because they are busy being crazy at work or mistreating people instead of working…these are working a job that will never support them, nor their children and government is paying for all the party-babies with medicaid…Pot is calling the kettle black as they used to say. My old well-adjusted church suggested exercising ‘grace’ when you meet these folks & just let them say whatever then ignore it as you can only control how you look to others by keeping the quiet dignity and self-respect of avoiding these…One can even say something nice to the person after a while and they feel self conscious and shut up.

Edited:
It needs to be noted, some of the churches do not have good intentions as these places are just looking to up the membership or are actually hiding some unfit members who still practice their ‘problem’. Some of these churches are just looking for a show for the circus and you don’t want it to be you. This is almost passive aggression. Any healing promised by these folks has a big tradeoff as you are putting yourself in the ring of some of the wrong people and more pressures for lots more demands in every where to submit to all sorts of business deals, tithings, toils & exposure to some predators/spooks hiding in the church but really lying in wait for next opportunity…Gosh, one church even had people who turned for them in times of need end up homeless & abandoned.

Also be aware, due to the end of Obama’s food bill the income limits for any assistance/benefits are now so low you are going to have to survive without any stamps or medicaid assistance. These stress from this or whatever could send your symptoms out of control…