Genetics & Sz: The Latest Junk from =Current Psychiatry= Online

News
1

http://www.currentpsychiatry.com/specialty-focus/schizophrenia-other-psychotic-disorders/article/genetics-of-schizophrenia-what-do-we-know/0455f9412036df6cd2de2ddb252cdcf1.html?

“The effect sizes of these genetic variants are small, explaining only 1% to 2% of genetic risks of schizophrenia.”

Then why in the ■■■■ was this published? I’ll tell you why: Because the particular individual who controls the content in Current Psychiatry – which is NOT a peer-reviewed professional journal – has had a rep for being a toady of Big Pharma for at least a decade. (Look at the advertising in this fishwrap.)

(The only reason I passed this along was to to demonstrate that the very shopworn notion that sz is essentially or largely genetic is still alive and well after fifty years of research proving it isn’t.) (BUT, there’s BIG $$$ in getting the dizzier docs to continue to BELIEVE!!!) (Feh.)

Bateson, G., Jackson, D., Haley, J.; et al: Perceval’s Narrative: A Patient’s Account of his Psychosis, Palo Alto, CA: Stanford University Press, 1961.
Esterson, A.: The Leaves of Spring: Schizophrenia, Family and Sacrifice, London: Tavistock, 1972.
Henry, J.: Pathways to Madness, New York: Random House, 1965.
Jackson, D. (ed.): The Etiology of Schizophrenia: Genetics / Physiology / Psychology / Sociology, London: Basic Books, 1960.
Jackson, D. (ed.): Myths of Madness: New Facts for Old Fallacies, New York: Macmillan & Co., 1964.
Laing, R. D.; Esterson, A.: Sanity, Madness and the Family, London: Tavistock, 1964.
Lidz, T.: The Origin and Treatment of Schizophrenic Disorders, New York: Basic Books, 1973.
Lidz, T.; Fleck, S., Cornelison, A.: Schizophrenia and the Family, 2nd Ed.; New York: International Universities Press, 1985.
Woititz, J. G.: Adult Children of Alcoholics, Pompano Beach. FL: Health Communications, 1983.
Black, C.: It Will Never Happen to Me: Children of Alcoholics as Youngsters-Adolescents-Adults, New York: Ballentine, 1981, 1987.
Miller, A.: For Your Own Good: Hidden Cruelty in Child Rearing and the Roots of Violence, London: Farrar, Straus & Giroux, 1979, 1983.
Miller, A.: Prisoners of Childhood / The Drama of the Gifted Child, New York: Basic Books, 1979, 1996.
Miller, A.: Thou Shalt Not Be Aware: Society’s Betrayal of the Child, London: Farrar, Straus & Giroux, 1981, 1984, 1998.
Forward, S.: Toxic Parents: Overcoming their Hurtful Legacy and Reclaiming Your Life, New York: Bantam Books, 1989.
Forward, S.: Emotional Blackmail: When the People in Your Life Use Fear, Obligation and Guilt to Manipulate You, New York: HarperCollins, 1997.
Perry, B.; Szalavitz, M.: The Boy Who was Raised as a Dog…, New York: Basic Books, 2007.

3 Likes
2

So how much IYO is it non genetic vs genetic? If it’s not genetic to some extent how do you explain sz running in some families?

1 Like
3

The ratio between the two is different for every single sz pt. If you look at the article, one can see why. The authors list something like 30 specific genes that are seen here and there in unusually high %age in individual sz pts… but not in all of them. Combine that with the individual specifics of the family behavior, and who knows how many different permutations are possible?

Here’s the thing that (sort of, but not really) intrigues me (and many others in this racket): The very high %age of sz pts who want desperately to believe that it’s ALL a matter of genetics to the complete exclusion of any behavioral conditioning by parents or other family members whatsoever. The leading theory (and the one I subscribe to for now, anyway) is that many sz pts are dependent financially and otherwise on the very people who drove them nuts, as well as so brainwashed by their families into a crazy-making moral perfectionism that makes observation of their family members’ IMmoral behavior IMpossible.

cc: @firemonkey @shutterbug @SzAdmin @Sarad

2 Likes
4

It’s genetic. Period.

5

So are you saying that I or my husband drove our son “nuts” into paranoid schizophrenia? How dare you! We were wonderful, loving parents from a good loving family. There is schizophrenia in my family on my mother’s side. There’s the gene. My son started smoking pot around the age of 15 and by the time he was 25 he was full-blown “crazy”! You sound like you’re from the 1950s when everything was blamed on the mother in particular when it came to things like mental illness and especially autism. Schizophrenia is chemical. It’s not caused by abuse, that’s multiple personality disorder.

6

This reminds me of a quote I can only paraphrase:

“As I get older I find that I’m no closer to knowing how the world works than ever, but I know a lot more about how it doesn’t work.”

7

Uh, the research I’m reading isn’t trending in that direction. It can possibly be mostly genetic in some cases, but is likely a combination of nature, nurture, and external forces to varying degrees. Same thing with diabetes, too.

Edit: There is SZ in my family history on the mother’s side. My mother was full-on whackdoodle and I abused weed and speed prodigiously in my youth. In my case it’s the ■■■■■ slap combo plate (nature, nurture, and being naughty).

Pixel.

1 Like
8

Actually, I wasn’t. Then. But now I’m not so sure. Because your arguments are exactly those I heard from so many of the parents of adolescent borderlines, sz, sza, szt, paranoid, schizoid and psychotic bipolar adolescents I encountered in both training and on the floor from 2006 since.

I don’t blame parents for their reactions when accused of willfully driving their children “crazy.” I don’t think any parent of a psychotic pt I ever saw set out to make their child nuts. They just did what they believed to be normal… because their parents had done pretty much the same thing to them.

The weight of science says otherwise.

BTW, many of the more sophisticated psych hospitals are now telling parents, “Don’t bring your ■■■■■■ up children to us expecting US to fix them and send them back home to the family that did the job to begin with. Bear in mind that we treat the entire family or no one at all. So. Get ready to suit up and show up to deal with your stuff as well as theirs.”

cc: @shutterbug @SzAdmin

2 Likes
9

One of the greatest of the wise men of the 20th century said, “The truth is what is left after all the lies are stripped away.” His name was Jiddu Krishnamurti.

1 Like
10

It’s a combination of environmental/social factors and genetics. Genetics do play a significant part but not ,I think,as much as was once believed.
There are lots of people with psychosis/schizophrenia who had adequate or good parents who did the best for their child/children.
Could bad parenting increase the chances of psychosis/schizophrenia? -quite probably, but not all parents of those with psychosis/schizophrenia are bad.
It needs to be remembered that @notmoses views on this matter may be shaped to a large extent by his less than positive relationship with his parents, and that a certain amount of projection may be going on.
It’s obvious this is a very personal matter to him.

2 Likes
11

It’s all about the cat poop.

3 Likes
12

I just want to add that abuse of any kind, such as pot, alcohol, drugs, can create a contingency where there is no authority over the person, and no guilt or shame from society/parents and can lead to a lifelong battle with demons that may manifest into schizophrenia because they wanted a release from it. Other lesser factors include stress, lack of sleep, peer rejection or fights, and socio economical issues of money.

1 Like
13

I didn’t mean to say genetics is the only factor. But I do believe that there is a family gene, and then your teenage boy smokes weed before the age of 17, and then he eventually is diagnosed with schizophrenia. So I believe genetics plays a big role. If he didn’t have the gene in the first place, would he be schizophrenic today? It is confusing.

14

Okay. Well, I’m sorry if I hurt anyone’s feelings, really I am. But there was no abuse (at least none that I know of!!) and we were a big loving family. I do admit, though, that Nathan was always a very sensitive boy and had phobias when he was as young as 3 years old. So he was very easily stressed out. He sister was the complete opposite! Again, it’s all so confusing. What I DO know is that my son’s diagnosis was the most devastating, heart breaking, just a feeling that is almost unexplainable, until my good friend whose son is also diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic, said, “It’s like a death.” And I had to agree that was the feeling that I couldn’t put my finger on. And I still cry. A lot.

1 Like
15

Further evidence.

1 Like
16

It usually does, but mostly in terms of the neural sensitivity to various forms of stimulation coming into the emotion-processing limbic system (see below) via the insular downlink to the amygdala (see below). The neural trunk lines along that path in the schizophrenic’s brain are different from those of non-sz brains in any of several different combinations that are both genetically, epigenetically (see below) and environmentally influenced.

If the young person has enough of these genetic and epigentic circumstances in play, stressful events – especially early in life as the child is developing language and critical thinking skills, even though florid sz is less likely to show up then – are more likely to enhance and magnify the results of genetic and epigenetic influences, possibly even enough to induce a physicological, as well as stress-driven, permanent psychosis.

That said, a lot can be done for the sz pt by reducing environmental stress to levels appropriate to their specific capacities. The book at the last link below makes some very useful suggestions in that regard.

http://www.amazon.com/Surviving-Schizophrenia-6th-Edition-Family/dp/0062268856

1 Like
17

Thank you very much! I’m trying to digest all this stuff and I already do have that book, but I haven’t made it all the way through. I shall go to that area of the book and read, or read again. I guess maybe I’m not understanding what is meant by stress, especially in the context of a very young child (my child in particular). How stressed can a two-year-old be? Do “you” mean like somebody was mean to him or abused him in some way? My boy was very sensitive, that’s for sure, and at about the age of three, he began to develop phobias, and this all started when he was in a home day care. I only worked part time so my children were never in day care all day every day. He was rather fearful of certain things, and hyper vigilant. Does any of this make sense? Were these perhaps early signs??

18

Yes - some children are just born very sensitive; due to a random genetic combination, subtle pregnancy stressors and infections (flu during pregnancy is suspected to be a big factor in some people with specific predispositions), nutritional deficiencies, and much more - the list is long and not something you should worry about now.

The past is the past - just focus on getting him the best help you can and keep on top of the psych workers to let them know that you are very concerned about the outcome and not going to let them just pass him back to the family when he’s still very ill.

3 Likes
19

K also said at the end of his life that not a single student had grasped his main message.

20

I’m not sure I fully understand your answer. Do you mean the “yes” as an answer to my last question “early signs??” Sorry. I know you advised to not dwell on the past. But I do. And frankly, the past seems to hurt more than the present right now because when I think of him pre-diagnosis and as a young boy, I cry! I can barely even look at old photos of his sweet smiling face!
He was a difficult birth, requiring Pitocin and then finally a C-section. Then he developed a high fever (104 degrees) when he was two days old! He had to stay in the neonatal intensive care unit for 11 days. I’ve often wondered if any of this contributed, along with the family gene. The doctors at this hospital in Hartford, CT were wonderful! He was finally diagnosed with renal tubular acidosis while he was in the ICU, and for the first 8 mos of his life, he had to endure blood drawing from his heel which was painful and I was just sick at heart during this time because I felt like I was being a monster, like torturing him (I know, not very rational), but I was the ONLY one who took him to these appointments so I guess I was “the bad guy.” These blood drawings were done twice a month to monitor the RTA.