Are you Antimeds or promeds?

for a time i was anti med…anti shrink… and anti ■■■■■■■■
because i saw people taking them, :pill: yet still seeing and hearing everything, and wondered why they bothered !?!
but then i began to see people who it did help.
but is it the ’ golden bullet ’ big pharma would like you to believe it is…no.
does it help some people a lot…yes.
the future of ’ shrink world '…

  1. is to find people early on in the diagnoses.
  2. make sure they have a ’ proper ’ carer and supportive network around them.
  3. early cbt…social skill training/ and coping mechanisms…etc.
  4. and the use of aps when necessary when psychosis is prevalent.
    this would be a good start.
    take care :alien:

Yes, it’s important to remember that it’s not a cure and it’s not a golden bullet, but sometimes they can really help.

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In general, I agree. But the vast majority of patients have been conditioned, habituated and normalized over the course of their lives to believe that 1) they are “learned helpless” (see below) and that 2) a pill is the solution (not).

Further, a truly neurological, genetic sz pt (however much trauma or “bad programming” he or she has suffered) has a brain that requires anti-Ps to chill it sufficiently to be able to do psychotherapy.

I may be the #1 promoter of psychotherapy here, but I am not enough of an all-or-nothing or black-and-white thinker to suggest that therapy is the complete solution for anyone whose brain has been – by dint of some combination of diathesis and stress (also see below) – remodeled to the rather severe extent one’s brain has been when they present with chronic psychosis.

Finally, very few modern p-docs are trained to be anything even remotely like adequate psychotherapists now.

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i agree people give away their power.
their health they give the responsibility to doctors
their mental health they give the responsibility to shrinks
their money to banking institutions
it is a slippery slope for a human being to rely on others all the time.
we have to step up and take accountability for our own health and well being as much as humanly possible ( which is harder if you have a mental illness. )
take care :alien:

Yes, I agree that:

  1. There’s a problem with learned helplessness and seeing a pill as a solution. I recognize that in myself also (or in myself as I used to be).

  2. Real neurological, genetic schizophrenia is probably a different story… but I believe at the moment many people are diagnosed with and/or treated as if neurologically schizophrenic while they are actually not.

  3. P-docs are not at all trained to do this job.

I also think once someone presents with chronic psychosis you’re rather late trying out all these other methods. In an earlier stage, even with “real schizophrenia”, I think other methods should at least need more research… not only psychotherapy, but also for example diet (glutenfree/dairyfree, fasting, ketogenic), neurofeedback, hormonal therapy (estrogen is supposed to help in women), etcetera. They are supposed to relieve and sometimes resolve symptoms, but nothing at all is done with them and I think that’s criminal if you see the horror both the disease and the meds can cause.

I live in a small town and I’m in Canada. You’d be surprised at what passes for psychiatric ‘care’ here. Or, more likely, depressed.

Pixel.

These do sometimes produce results with chronically psychotic patients, I agree.

The problem is in the diagnosis (at times). Most board certified p-docs and psychologists (who are Ph.D.s) can accurately dx sz. Moreover because they will use one or more proven test devices to make sure they are right, especially if the pt looks “iffy” and/or has a drug abuse history.

A “real” sz will not respond positively to any of the txs you listed, as I expect you already know.

And, btw, after 28 years of working with all manner of psych pts, it’s not difficult to tell a “real” sz pt from a garden variety psychotic.

We often remind each other, “1/3 of us know what we’re doing. 1/3 of us don’t, but don’t do that much damage. And 1/3 of us don’t and…”

Additionally, public mental health “care” tends to be the worst because it is over-stressed and under-funded. All-private-patient / no-insurance-accepted care tends to be very suspicious (in my experience). And private-insurance-funded care tends to be the “best” (relatively).

Most of the private mental health care in Canada is for addictions. Practically nothing for SZ. Even if I had private health care (I don’t), it would be useless to me.

Pixel.

My meds make me into how I should be. I hate that I have obesity from them but if I didn’t take them I suffer so much.

I see them as a bit of a magic bullet, could do without the side effects but will happily take them for the rest of my life. Life sucks when I am psychotic

Well… I was wondering about that…is that so? Because I saw scientific studies backing up the methods I just named, because they relieved symptoms in (sometimes even treatment resistant) sz patients. Even a relief in symptoms, would be good I guess. But I’m not a doctor, and I don’t have schizophrenia, so I only know what the studies say…not practice…

But then again… I know more than one pt who had a diagnosis sz for years and years only for them to conclude later “it wasn’t real schizophrenia, oops, sorry, overmedicated you”. So maybe the people responding weren’t real sz.

Here in the Netherlands it’s not much better. They used to have somewhat better public mental health care i think, but they wanted to save money, and the money they do have goes to manager. So now all the “extra’s” (besides handing over a pill by a nurse) are gone. I was in a clinic were they would just lock you up… you’d see a just-from-school-general doctor (not even a graduated psychiatrist) for 30 minutes a week and they had no other therapies or a psychologist or anything. I’d never even heard of a psychofarmacist.

True that man… No need for overkill…

Also falling back to what flybottle said… I’m still trying to solve it all natural… And making progress…

A lot of progress these days… It’s almost not about fighting to see how my own symptoms operate… But strengthening myself and watching the symptoms fall by the wayside…

I did need meds for a long time… And situationally I could wind up needing meds again.

I’m not violent or suicidal… And frankly i’ve been through so much ■■■■■■■■ with this illness I don’t usually mind the constant noise whatever it is from moment to moment…

These days I’m getting less delusional… Even in the face of symptoms… And more solid in myself…

Had to give up a lot to get here. I’m not special… I aint gonna change the world… I’m just a nobody… Part of the backdrop that I see most everyone else in.

Glad to know you all… We’re lucky to have this forum.

i actually thought i was healed and could go off the meds… so when i took half… some of the hallucinations came back and it made me paranoid of my neighborhood.

Antimed :sunglasses:

Someone should say it

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Pro med. I had the same experiences everhopeful did. I got in on the ground floor with Thorazine (Chlopromazine) in 1963…

I misspoke myself to this extent: A real sz who is not taking some form of dopamine receptor site occupier. Of course it is possible that any of those tx’s might help a given pt with his or her symptoms. But for any of them to be the essential treatment, I don’t see ho that could be possible since sz is the behavioral presentation of dopamine chains run amok in the limbic system.

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I’m Pro, but I think more research should be done to negate the weight gain and stuff you mentioned, for sure! We need a pill that doesn’t increase our mortality rate due to obesity and diabetes!

Also, on the breast growth, anybody else get that, like by a lot of cup sizes? I was 110 pounds and a small B cup before meds. now I’m obese 178 lbs, but I’m like a G cup and the band around my torso is still about the same measurement (wearing 34G right now). If I grew to like a 34DD I’d be like oh, okay, that’s all obesity, but this is a little excessive…that’s like DDDD(D?) too many… was thinking about reduction surgery (decided not to because I’m afraid of wounds). I wonder if this is a serious side effect that went unnoticed until it started happening in males, too? I remember risperdal being on the news for male breast enlargement (I was on risperdal for a bit, too).

I also lactate…no kids, no brain tumor (had mri and had no kids).
So, pro-meds, but also anti-use-my-body-as-a-guinea-pig-for-experimental-drugs, if that makes any sense? Kind of feel like a guinea pig since I was the first gen to take Zyprexa, Seroquel, and Abilify (I remember my doctors telling me how they were new and might work), and after all those pills I’m a motherless lactating woman with a heavy weight on my chest. Wish I could sue for making me all obese and top heavy. unsatisfied customer!

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I’m neither. I’m pro “do-what’s-best-for-yourself.” I can’t take meds due to side effects and I manage very well without them, but for some people meds saved their life. So I just want everyone to do what’s right for their own treatment plan, whether that involves meds or not.

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I’ve always regarded the med’s as a necessary evil. Even the best of them have terrible side effects. I know what happens when I don’t take them, though.