The Double Bind of Schizophrenia: You are Wrong Either Way

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I have long noticed in my experience with scz that logically there is a problem.

If the voices are really other people and/or beings, then I shouldn’t act as though their pain is not real.

If I act as though their pain is real, then I am justifiably schizophrenic and verifiable irrational which creates habits that are bad for my character, and it will bring me down by mere habitual practice of this kind.

Here’s the double bind…

Where the double bind is my beliefs in there being telepathic religious reality, and thus there being a moral obligation to sentient beings including people.

If I’m being responsible to the tenets of my beliefs, then I am always mentally bugged like spies in my mind. If I owe them that, then I must act as though this is true in every case of every day of my life.

If that is the case, then telepathy must be more. Religions create the mental archetype of there being a telepathic connection with things and others, so to adhere to the duties of these tenets I must adhere to the obligations of there being telepathic beings. To not do so is immoral, and thus…

…the double bind.

A double bind is where there is no right solution.

No matter what I did, I did something wrong, and between the two choice of becoming sane or holding to my religious tenets, I chose to hold my religious tenets because the outcome was infinite, and I could not find anyway to believe the voices were not possibly really others that deserved respect.

So morally wrong on one hand and logically wrong on the other hand.

Hahaaaaa, amazing. The razor’s edge amazing. :slight_smile:

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Alan Watts~ Double Bind

Bateson’s “double bind theory of schizophrenia” 1984 psychology of torture, narcistic abuse

The Blind Maze and the Double Bind of the Narcissistically Abusive System

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Call me silly, but I’ve always believed inanimate objects had life in them and reveal themselves to those who believe.

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That probably creates a major double bind, doesn’t it.

If you act logically, you destroy someone, and if you act morally, you yourself have gone mad. The end result is to give up, isn’t it?

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Why is it morally wrong to disregard telepathic voices as simply a product of your imagination? That’s what I try to stick with doing. It makes life easier, and if you’re wrong and it’s real telepathy, I’m sure you’ll be forgiven, because it would be highly improbable.

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Even if the voices are real, you insulting them is barely a problem, since they’re occupying your head. The voices will probably get really mean spirited if you insult them too much though. Kind of forced to co-exist, and you usually develop a kind of Stockholm syndrome with them. Seriously, don’t over-stigmatize your bad / intrusive thoughts, they barely register in the real world.

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Also, you’ll notice less and less telepathy if you disregard it as imagination. At least I do. Thing is, it can be addictive to give in and go back and forth with fake, or very unlikely real telepathy. But it is mentally draining. Sometimes it’s fun though, so I must admit I entertain the thoughts sometimes. Usually with me it’s with someone deceased I imagine talking with in my head, usually when my mind is unoccupied. But thankfully I have better control over my mind now, I can dismiss these thoughts fairly quickly usually.

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I tried that. It didn’t work. It’s like if I accepted a religion in which my mind’s actions were observed, then for some reason I always wound up obligated to entertain these voices as though they could be real thus they must be real. Without getting to into it that’s basically how it was.

When I studied what the religions really were, and how the people that make them really think and what else they are capable of, then I could begin to ignore the voices as it was not logically and not immoral at the same time.

No more double bind.

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The thing is that you’re over-emphasizing your thoughts. If entertaining the voices is blocking you from performing worthwhile actions in the external world, you need to be forceful about it. You’ll probably get more karma for those actions too.

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It’s a mess, right? I learned long ago that being less stigmatic about anyone was better, thus I was less stigmatic about myself, and as a result the voices lessened their meanness. There was some relief there, but it wasn’t until I learned what religions were and the type of people that make them and what else they have been up to in history and currently that I was able to get out of the double bind. Now to ignore the voices is simply logical and not immoral.

No more double bind.

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Same here. That’s the trouble too. Hehe

No more. I know what it is. My schizogenetic religion was just fables that have ■■■■■■■■ my mind’s ability to think and question honor. So to talk to myself like that is something that is strategically played against many people, and I’m done with that.

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It’s not offensive to ignore the voices, since if they are real you’re communicating with them with your thoughts anyways, and in a sense, sharing your life experience with them, so that should be plenty of attention. Plus, they can communicate amongst themselves (when I’m unmedicated I can hear them talking about weird things like visiting brains and such.)

We’re not supposed to be hearing them talk anyways. Hearing them is a sign that we’re in trouble, our brains are overly stressed out.

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Well…there’s no karma or “blow back” when it’s just yourself being forceful about blocking yourself as if yourself is more than one person or being. And there’s no supernatural anything which is the thing I’ve been told to believe in which I’ve never ever seen proof of not without a bunch of lush metaphors to make it seem like it could be or nothing is provable or something. The truth is that I only heard about it from others not ever seen it anywhere.

But again to try to get stern with yourself as though yourself is another is very bad. It only exacerbates the schizogenetic effects.

If you are hard on your brain like it is an animal, and you scold it only verbally, that can work similarly if you pep talk it in the mirror or something.

But I think that an understanding of the schizogenetic double bind is something that can relieve both of those from being necessary at all.

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Yes it’s an unhealthy habit I believe you’re right. I’ll keep trying to avoid it!

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What kind of religion did you have in the past or currently carry remnants of? :slight_smile:

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I was raised catholic. I became highly spiritual prior to my first real psychosis when I was about 25, but religion wasn’t playing a strong role in my voices and thoughts. Later on, in my last psychotic episode, I believed that telepathy was the next level of human evolution and that it was reserved to those, living or dead, who have developed the capability. So I believed certain musical artists were communicating with me as well as deceased people (family, artists…) were communicating with me. It was a real s@#t show in my mind and got ugly. It took a while for me to recover control of my brain even after medication, but I came a long way.

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The religions are schizogenetic due to the double bind nature of them with the logic vs. moral psychological cybernetic loop. You just go round and round literally day in and day out for years.

They are meant to retard the minds, so if you feel like you don’t want to do anything or you can’t as a result of your scz, that is by design.

The problem for people is if they didn’t grow up learning what reality is like including the real way the mind works, other people’s minds, and reality in general. You can tell them the truth, but they wouldn’t know what to believe because they’ve never known anything else. They’d literally have to study it. Then getting people to let go of the thing they experience stockholm syndrome with is a whole other thing. It can be done, but it’s nothing that happens like light switch. It takes time, and it takes questions like the Socratic method of questions. The truth is in them, but you just have to manually get the brain to work out the truth by asking it questions over several months.

Once the brain sees the subject and that it is socially normal, then it will figure out the details on its own. That’s what brains are made to do.

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I believe in my religion (Sikhism) because I want to be saved. Sikhism doesn’t “double bind” me, it helps me. I find that the more time I put into it, the more I get out of it. It gives me confidence to do what I want, and conquers my fear of death (my head pressure was bad enough to hospitalise me on three occasions, thinking a vessel would burst, and to do much of anything I have to conquer said fear, since the pain is pretty constant.)

I’ve had many very religion-affirming experiences (including what seemed like a few lines of communication with God) that I can’t just rationally explain away. I’m not clever enough to fabricate these seemingly metaphysical experiences.

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One thing I also realized about fake telepathy when I was psychotic, is that the telepathic voices can’t tell you anything you do not know, as in new information. While they may act all knowing, if you mentally ask them “what is the surface temperature of Venus?” and you don’t know the answer, then you won’t get an accurate answer. This is, of course, because the telepathic voices are in actuality created by your own brain. Not a revelation of any kind but it’s further proof that the voices were just a product of my imagination, which was out of control.

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Same for me too.

The interest given to the voices though and the nuances where people and reality seem to be connected in a telepathic and/or supernatural way…

…is related to cybernetics.

This video explains Cybernetics. They don’t allow it to be posted. You have to watch it on Vimeo.

And that would be cybernetics as far as how the informational factory of brain and mind are concerned which is full of nuance…actually it’s all dynamic nuances, so…

…it’s easy to be fooled into think that there are telepathies and supernatural pseudo subjects…

…that have been purported to be real for thousands of years.

It’s kind of a “natural blind spot” in the way that the “mind field” if you will understand that catches a lot of people in it. They have no proof for what they are believing, and they can only describe it in metaphors and never anything literal in a logical sense.

I have family and know others that are not scz, but they believe in telepathic things. None of them can prove it. I think this affects the success of their relationships, success in life, and so on because of the lack of logic where reality and the meaning of things both in themselves, in others, and in reality are concerned. Lack of logical understanding arrives at illogical meanings, and that drives irrationality. If irrationality is at the driver’s seat of your life, you will tend to veer towards impractical actions and impractical inactions. Take one eye of the road so to speak, and you’re always going to be in a ditch, so the life of this kind of mentality is constantly filled with short comings. They tend to give up on trying things too because they realize how irrational their mental faculties work.