What I was just about to post when @shutterbug understandably closed the thread:
Bingo. (As usual.) (To the rest: Sara is a university-trained sociologist, not some kid with a half-baked opinion.)
@Daze See http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/saudi/analyses/wahhabism.html.
That’s because I was in position ( for good or bad, I don’t know) to observe them in vivo. 
Am I a good student?
Yes of course.
I know you are, Sara. I think that you share a good light on the topic. I would just suggest that women not be put into an unforeseeable future of not deciding for themselves, based on their own beliefs. Women have the right to make their own minds up, and I think in many cases, it may seem doomed to others, but wanted by what is in their hearts.
But therein lies the issue. Are beliefs reflections of observed reality… of what is? Or are they mere collections of words about a reality that is stipulated by the collectors of those words?
I have no problem with “rights.” But if a person’s assertion of rights to believe in fabrications designed to control women so they can be used as sexual receptacles and farm animals is self-harming… I’m going to speak up.
If one has not studied comparative religion from outside the box of belief, one is likely to be unable to see the difference between instructed (those italics are for @Sarad 's benefit; hahahaha) belief and truth-seeking by means of empirical observation.
Yeah and that’s exactly where religion fails to prove its legitimacy.
But nevertheless I would like to show @notmoses that there are believers that are NOT closed minds, misogynistic and repressive fatwa machines (that’s how I call them)…there are others, less visibile Muslims that are actually capable for self criticism. They are minority but still…
One should as well Google Islamic feminism to see the other side of a coin.
Hey, I’m not a big fan of religions that edify the ramblings of sociopathic, mass-murdering pedophiles, but this really isn’t the best place to hash that out.
Pixel.
If sz is a disorder caused in large part by mis-belief and incapacity to separate introjected stipulations of what is vs. observation of what is, why? (Or… why not?)
that’s ridiculous to say women are in the category of farm animals, it has nothing to do with a hierarchy and everything to do with actual living. If you believe strongly in your faith, you will make adjustments. It doesn’t mean you are being controlled, it means you are making an assumption, yes assumption, that what you do translates into a higher purpose. If I stopped believing that my job was to care for my kids, what would that say about me? If a woman chooses to find it in religion, and then translate it to the world, that is to the good.
@Szadmin over to you.
I agree with this - most people here probably have a very different opinion on female liberation than people signed up to the muslim faith. But - I don’t think we’d be helping anyone by hashing this out here - we’d just turn off people who might find benefit and support here that has nothing to do with religion.
We have lots of things to talk about here… a virtually unlimited number of things judging from the 50,000+ threads we’ve had over the past year. We’ve just found that some beliefs - like religion - are not that productive to argue here because there are no real “answers” or “proof” that a rational argument can draw upon (or very little that isn’t up for dispute).
Sure - religion is a belief, but its also a “spiritual” thing that people hold extremely dear to them so it can rouse up emotions and stress that isn’t good for people on our site. We generally want to keep this environment a positive and low-stress place for people to enjoy themselves. Religious discussions tend to end up counter to that goal.