Dude, we’re smarter or dumber?
Summary
Collectively it seems to suggest SZ is associated with reduced intelligence. However individually there are highly intelligent SZ as can be found on this forum.
If you get strict about high intelligence being accessible to only 1 in 20 out of the individuals in the world… then intelligence doesn’t really have that strong a foothold in any demographic…
The stats they are seeming to be looking at are either the deterioration or developmental issues of mental illness and what that can tell us about cognitive issues in general. What genetic factors correlate with the difficulties of the conditions.
If a mentally ill individual is of above average intelligence people naturally see that person as someone who is less in need of help than those who are struggling more due to the lack of intelligence in the face of their issues.
They’re doing a genome wide study… so they are taking genetic samples from some large set of individuals with these conditions… then using previously identified markers… and seeing who has them.
It’s just like the needle in the hay stack though… it sort of de-valuates the relevance of each individual. They are looking for a consistent structural back bone behind a vague set of symptoms… I really don’t feel much promise is going to come from this angle. It is sort of the state of science though. It’s what they have to start with trying.
Like looking at mudballs from every country of the world and trying to cross reference their chemical consistencies… only to find a wide degree of variance… and exceptions that de-validate and standing generality.
people with SZ do not have “reduced intelligence” that absurd. People have different strengths and weaknesses. A blind person often has a supurb sense of smell and hearing. The brain adapts. Some aspects may diminish but others like intuition gain wings. Its a curse and a blessing. SZ people are just as smart as everyone else.
Basically, when Elyn Saks was tested in a psych ward she didn’t score that high on her intelligence test even though she is very successful and a genius. She scored 99th percentile on the LSAT the day she took the test, for example. She also went to Yale, is a professor, and went to Oxford and did really well overall.
I heard schizophrenics are below average in intelligence, but I wonder if that’s because they were tested at inappropriate times like when psychotic or over medicated or just starting meds, and not totally stable.
They won’t test my IQ but I was above average before the illness and was a successful student. I would have to pay or go get approval to get an IQ test.
I think the meds and illness affect intelligence in both directions. Sometimes I feel smart and other times dull or normal. There are definitely signs of changes in the brain like less grey matter. Overall, since 20 years old, I’ve experienced cognitive decline.
After having schizophrenia for 8 years, I was told based on my behavior and interactions my IQ was 110 and I could be an engineer or programmer, but not a mathematician or physicist, basically. At least not until they come up with a cure or better meds. I know she just guessed but she’s probably not that far off.
Currently, I can barely function. Sometimes, I feel like I was experimented on or given schizophrenia although I’ve been told I’m delusional. Because of this, I doubt things like my illness. My strongest delusion is we live in a sim, yet it’s practically been confirmed by Silicon Valley and by some of the smartest, most successful people on the planet. Plus, I have my memories which just confirms it.
I believe I’m stuck in a time loop and stuck repeating my life over and over again as a schizophrenic.
If this isn’t hell, I don’t know what is.
Objective: The authors’ goal was to investigate the issue of intellectual deterioration in
schizophrenia.
Method: They examined the childhood IQs of adult patients with schizophrenia
who had attended a child psychiatry service where measurement of intelligence was rou-
tine. Follow-up IQs of 34 of these patients were obtained an average of 19.4 years later.
Results: The mean child and adult IQs were greater than one standard deviation lower than
those of the general population. There were no significant differences between the child and
adult IQs, however, suggesting that the impairment in intelligence during childhood was stable
over the follow-up period.
Conclusions: The deficit in intellectual function observed in these
patients, and reported in the literature, is lifelong and predates the onset of schizophrenia.
(Am J Psychiatry 1997; 154:635–639)
https://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/pdf/10.1176/ajp.154.5.635
I always felt dumb growing up, and was even tested for something like ADHD and it came back normal. I just took school seriously at community college and things clicked. My memory deterioration didn’t start until age 20-21. I was a math major at a top 20 school and felt like it got too hard. I don’t know.
Maybe if I didn’t have the predisposition things would have turned out better.
When I studied when I was younger, I did well. But when I didn’t study I would do bad.
I also never learned how to study smart in college. I just studied hard.
Now, I’m better equipped but I think I lost too much intelligence and functioning ability to go back.
I do think the average IQ here bucks the trend for people with schizophrenia being below average IQ.
Having said that, and playing devil’s advocate , I would say that generally people online are probably more intelligent than those who are not.
It would be interesting to measure the average intelligence of people here against those of a non mental health forum.