I can’t read and comprehend all that is written here. It seems to me that I became. A lifetime of medicine side effects hasn’t helped any.
ok you have a point, so in addition to the person having a physical “opening”,
like a leaky gut or a near death experience or a bad nutrition bad sleep habit lifestyle,
body and mind break down and then the demon world comes pouring in, but not necessarliy for everybody.
also a well known genetic link for “sz”.
my father was a roman catholic jesuit priest,
that is the mark of a shaman and shamanism in hereditary.
often the shaman’s son would also see the visions, and would be trained as a shaman.
so some have more of the demon world on our genome, maybe?
lady wrote some books about siberian shamanism,
where the demons were actually riding on the genome, as RNA, or “junk DNA”,
collected onto the genome generation after generation,
that’s it, the book was called spirits of trauma - every time the shaman removed a spirit of trauma from a client,
then demon came to live on his genome, and was passsed down to the next herediatary line,
if you entertain that theory, some of us are more vulnerable than others,
but this vulnerability would also be our destiny,
rich demon world travelling on the genome,
hey if you are a guy, and you are sz,
your’ father, is it possible his life could have led to your path?
according to the logic of spirits of trauma,
demons multiply, as we share them, on websites like this,
and i have found that i can feel it,
i can read a book by a schizophrenic,
and i can obtaion the demons that he tranmits.
myself, i don’t avoid it.
i consider myself a shaman and i fly into the face of it.
when i can’t handle it i back off, ecentually i get back up to speed.
yes, i can “see” the demon, but no, doesn’t appear in human reality as another human,
as far as the “field” in which this entity exists, it is not a material field.
and yes, as a human body i am in a material field.
so how come the interaction between two fields?
because i also exist in that dimension, where they exist, bodyless.
i call it the demon world, it is superimposed up on our world,
two separate realities over the same physical space.
once i noticed all the american cities corresponded with the demon world cities,
iasked how come they did that, they said no, the humans build their cities on the places of the demon cities.
so for me it’s usually two separate worlds, the one i talk to you guys in, and the one i communicate much more directly with demons in.
however,
as a shaman, i have built a mechansim of mind.
I believe if i made the effort i could see both worlds simulataneously.
but that would make it hard to funciton in the human world.
so for 8 hours a day i shut out the demon world and only look with human eyes.
but that leaves out important information.
so even though i don’t watch, i set the third eye to “record” during the day, what is happening in the supernatural realm over the stuff i am doing and seeing in mundane reality.
at the end of the day i am able to play back the recording, and see which humans i interacted with were haunted with demons, what was really going on in the weird little interactions i had that day.
and also, in a psych hospital, i was there to get the girlfriend released and they were trying to teach us alesson,
no you can’t just come in and then leave when you want, now that you put her in here she’s gonna have to stay a while.
well, i visited the floor, and watched the people, only with human eyes.
a doctor who knew me saw me at the front desk, he said “oh, finally, you’ve come to check yourself in!!!”
i said no, just here to get another tiger to escape from the circus.
but my point was that while on the floor i jst watched the patients.
when i went home and played it back, several of the patients showed up as giant owls.
owls are demons in that realm.
so at the end of the day i picked out the haunted patients.
see?
also, had a theory, that the demon world i have been in all my life, an alternate reality with an alternate family and life history, well, figured out maybe that is the world of the microbes in my gut, that in my dreams i open up to their psychological hive mind reality, they are the demons, as far as scale, in the dream i am merely another one of them, but iwith my regular mind, and they have that powerful knowledgeable demon hive mind, so they take advantage of me but they also teach me stuff, in 35 years they made me an honorary bug king, and taught me the ways of the demon world.
I wrote a book to document the adventures. like a bat mitzvah in the demon world, it was a dream, but of all the haunted dreams in my life it was the dream of the lifetime, i was initiated in to the demon world and shown my magic.
here i am still in the human world and they don’t like me telling these stories here.
they say i am sick and i should shut up and be quiet.
and that is on e possible explanation i guess.
hey you wanna see the demon?
i draw it sometimes.
this is what i see if i close my eyes any time in the evening after dark, round 7 it usually comes on,
i call it “the movies” and i can direct it to some extent.
when i was very young, i was chased by this demon nightly as were my three siblings. We’d discuss it in the morning and plan how to take action the next night in the dreams.
one day i let myself get caught. none of the other siblings ever let that happen.
i was taken inside the walls, into a demon dimension, like a ufo abduction, but that wasn’t a spaceship,
\it was a portal to their world.
they processed me on operating tables.
they placed an object in my back that was turned out 30 years later to blossom into a separate demon soul.
lots of people object to the dual soul delusion, but it my consistent story over the course of my life, makes the most sense to me.
and way later in life, in a library researching mayan art on vases that were burried with the dead and never meant to be seen by the living, i saw this demon just like the ones in the demon world i live in, and sure enough he was inserting his hand in someone’s back
see the resemblance?
yeah, i do not see the demon in the light of day alongside my fellow human beings.
they have always been in a dream world, even if i’m awake and it is superimposed on reality.
even in the few cases i can remember of visually hallucinating them standing there, fighting,
they are made of a completely different nature, see through, brightly shining,
i’d never confuse one of those for a human- but on the other hand, in times
when the paranoia of schizophrenia arises, i treat any incoming look or advance as the
hostility of demons and respond accordingly, guess i’m thinkint that though i can’t see them with my eyes
i perceive them, assuming its the third eye that is doing that/.
hey so i got no point, i’m a crazy guy with delusions, very annoying to my fellow man just for being here apparently,
wanted to point one thing out before i go -
besides being the son of a jesuit catholic priest, my grandmother on my mother’s side was an aztec sorceress.
the shamans who see me say that is the issue here, a sky religion and an earth religion crashing on my genome, so that the spirit world is right “in my face” - i swear that’s waht christina pratt the professional shaman said, think she still has a website and stuff, that was 20 years aog though.
so i have appropriated my olmec aztec heritage, learned the shamanism of pre conquest mexico…
the demons, i see them if i come out of my body.
fly right out, and then do expanding spirals around my physical body,
and right away i will enter the portal
in that portal the demons and i are on even terms,
made of the same substance, both of us just as unreal.
in that realm we communicate.
at first it is all nonsense, terrorism, demands,
but the colony can be brought under some kind of governance.
a shaman directs the demons in his mind,
whether they are aspects of his subconscious or really familiars, spirits that aid the shaman,
whatever, they bring interesting stories and guidance,
\as well as terrible suggestions,
and i think it is good to listen, i call it having access to demon counsel
so the olmes taught how to do this, here’s a picture i saw on the web a couple of days ago, a statue representing their worldview or cosmology, notice the three “doorways”, each said to lead o the “underworld”, well, we olmecs simply know the secret of going in and out those doors…
http://www.freewebs.com/cosmologies/nativeamerica.htm
here’s the picture i downloaded from that site,
note the three doors, one inside the mountain,
one under the water,
and one in the cloud world above the corn, the corn has four seedds, the four directions, etc…
those doors. I thought about that today
to try to explain to you where the demons really are
and how we access them.
so it is hard for me to figure out exactly what you mean,
but maybe you are saying that i am free to go, not actually sz.
yeah, i didn’t think so either, but the pdocs insist, every time i go in there.
oh, bipolar, schizoaffective, paranoid sz, and a few other things they’ve called me.
yeah its not nearly as debilitating an experience for me as it seems to be for others.
i chalk that up to the years of shamanism training though,
and assumed at the beginning i was just another simple case of sz.
bilateral communication and voices though dude, all the time.
i can turn it on at will and it rarely intrudes.
exceptions are when i was lying in a jail cell a year ago,
clear as anything a loud female voice yells come downstairs,
but no one is in the cell.
but that’s not bilateral communication, and its meaningless, for all i know there was a werid speaker somewhere or somewhere, and way back as a kid doing crack and walking home in the streets at night, invisible people saying things and following me, but i just chalk that up to crack withdrawal.
but oolong tea is an amazing drug, and all it takes is a few days of fasting and then an explosion of leeshan oolong, and a dark room, and pen and paper.
the bilateral communication comes flying at me left and right. I take notes for a few hours then let it drift off.
i used to travel america by greyhoud. i’d steal the dreams of the passengers, by sitting in the center of the bus, wait till midnight when almost all are asleep, then break out that tea, chug it, turn on a shamanism drumbeat tape, and practice the shamanism which is to come out side my body, go down a hole in the earth, travel to the demon world, and find my spirit guide. But on those greyhounds, instead i’d come out of my body, get up on top outside the bus, and listen to the voices.
I’d take lots of notes through out the night, then in the morning arrange it and post it on the web as poetry
ok that was along time ago, but it still works, i still do that in this room sometimes, bilateral communication
\is it sz, i always thought it was just an immaginative kid with allergies.
took this on tour in new york, ohio, and california, and the pdocs seem confident, though,
\that i am totally insane.
a “schizophrenic not born but made”
-onderdonk
sounds like your solution is monotheism, or that is what you would suggest…
i am religious, but i practice daoism, not monotheism, think monotheism is kinda evil,
i’ve seen that little black book, all about hatred and violence and attachment,
can’t believe people take that stuff as their guide.
demons sprew empty talk.
but the source of that empty talk is the wide open lava pit of madness,
not thie little windy dungeon of reason that mankind talks to me from,
and all kinds of alternate configurations and understandings about reality
can bubble up out of that pit of madness,
where philosophy religion and poetry bubble up from into your nobel prize winning literature.
yes, it’s empty talk.
but sometimes, like the empty talk of a zen koan,
a presentation is designed to break down the rational mind
so as to let the universe flood in.
empty talk, yes, but they do also have valid and penetrating criticisms
of humanity that i find to be useful insight.
cause if you just listen to the humans, everything they think is correct and perfect
and no other view in the universe matters, none could possible afford humans the
dignity that their current world view does, they feel, so they are holding on tight - attachment,
maybe they learned in that monotheism book of yours.
yes i practice shamansim which is personalized daoism,
yes i listen to the demons,
i practice wubu fa kao zhao fa,
i invented it, combo of two “fa” or methods
wu bu fa is the buddhist rite of exorcism,
and kao zhao fa is a taoist rite of summoning and interigating demons.
I like it because I get to spend up to 6 months with a demon or a demon family inside me,
powering manic energy levels and generating numerous psychoses,
like a think tank session in the demon world,
over which i appropriate and train the demon on how to behave in harmony in the universe,
and it all ends very humanely, out in a distant galactic cluster core,
a heaven grotto i deposit the demon in that is so beautiful,
the demon so happy and content, that they wouldn’t think of leaving ever,
even if they could possibly escape the heavy gravitational well i’ve deposited them in,
they never even think of leaving.
so demons and their misguided ways are not a threat to me.
i don’t take them for leaders though, rather i try to show them leadership,
a trained psychopomp and developing my own personal methods over the decades,
lot of haunting in america and i move around alot,
so i figured this stuff out out of neccessity.
my leader was a tapir at the sf zoo.
now my leader is the moon, the universe talks to me via the moon.
and it isn’t teaching me to destroy humans.
the universe is teaching cultivation,
not evil
not the destruction of man, per se, though i find heaven is no humanist.
they teach me to cultivate stillness, cultivate weakness,
cultivate perserverence in the face of your rational world.
to hold the sun and the moon still in the sky,
and move slowly in regular, plangent waves,
to drink the efferevecent pneuma of brilliant lights
and to stand in and accept huge swaths of cold and darkness.
this is what they teach me and i choose to follow them,
i see it as a form of religion,
that my madness has been transmuted
carefully over the decades
into a manageable psychotic state
that is pure ecstacy for me,
if the wages of sin is death,
the wages of cultivation is ecstacy,
and if you cultivate yourself into a lake of joy,
you are a drop of salvation for the universe.
i use madness, transmuted into a form of religion,
to appropriate the power of the universe all around me,
baryonic as well as dark, human mundane world as well as spirit world,
and walk forward in the snowfall of non action toward the universe’s salvation.
and yes demon is a parasite,
but universe doesn’t say we have to kick it off.
doesn’t hyper trophy one side or the other,
humans or demons,
dad kinda hopes all the kids can just play together.
-wonderdonkey
i had my first psychosis in 2000, and had a hallucination of a demon in ape/monkey form…scared the life out of me, anyone here see a hallucination of a ape/monkey?
the heaven of madness. is what they contact or generate or locate.
the giant pool of lava beneath the surface.
up here you have consensual reality, a necessarily limited sphere,
dominated and limited by the twin fields of science and reason;
a cold and icy world, where meaning is frozen into solid forms,
ideas are calcified, society is placed on a pedestal and up on a shelf,
at the very top you have the mayor, at the top of an icy mountain of reason,
he can’t even read certain books, much less express certain ideas or discuss other worlds,
he has to stay inside a very rigid worldview and this limits his capabilities.
i think mankind decided that was the way to go, for the most part.
especially the mayor at the top.
blind to the beauty and truth of the hot molten madness below,
but very content to live out his days in the icy reaches
of consensual reality, keep the supplies of resources flowing in for the purpose of pursuing pleasure.
pleasure, the real dopamine agonist behind the wall of castles that icy consensual reality hides behind.
yeah, i know another truth,
and no i don’t hate to know your truth,
i have to keep aware of what your truth is,
and i study your world, your consensual sense of truth,
i am on top of what you humans think is up,
but you are not doing well enough and demons can advance the project much better than you are doing…
and so it is demons, the demon molten world of madness that is contacted in times of need, when maybe we are feeling sick and poisoned from the calcified consensual reality, maybe we just aren’t getting our fair share of the pleasure and so we stand up, annoyed, and start the revolution, raise all hell like my parents would say, raise up the demon world of madness and attack the mayor on ice mountain.
i used to practice that, like many sz, but stopped.
i stay at the bottom of the mountain, not too icy, but not too molten.
i get to have a foothold in your world, mainly for access to your libraries and bookstores.
for that i need a job, and a place to live indoors, so i put that all together
in a little kit i use to travel to and live in the human world., hiking up the mountain when ever.
but i also take trips down below in to the molten lava, talk to the demons, watch that world cause it is really far more fascinating than the cold upper reaches of the human world, everything so dynamic, transmuting so easily in to different natures, single forms giving rise to multiple natures, new visions of reality flooding in and overwhelming mind and reason so as to sweep one away on the waves of madness and travel throughout the lower chasms of the human mind.
that is what is “located” inside the main nature of the individual.
shame on america and the monotheists for not teaching how to navigate the worlds,
as most other religions taught, but now trying to lock that down to only the priest or only the pope goes,
everybody else just sit down and listen to him, and stop trying to do it yourself.
cause that may work for the mayor but it’s not working for everybody.
so if you wanna be mayor, you head up the mountain, pursue “belonging”, that is one direction you could go.
if not, you may wanna pursue “understanding”, and for that, my friend, you have to travel in the other direction.
Wonder D on Key
dude they are all and always apes and monkeys.
they got red eyes.
they are all around you.
nothing to be afraid of.
afraid is the worst thing you could be.
they are like wolves, wild animals,
that is the demon wind,
the universe is demon windy,
some people might want to close the window
when you feel the demon draft.
try to if you can.
if you fail, meds, and all,
there is learning to live with the window open.
but you better get used to apes and monkeys with red eyes and crazy minds and clinging magic sucking powers…
cool im not afraid any more, of this ive over came it, the ape was the size of a real ape, i was in the back of a ambulance i was tied to the bed and the ape appeared, i could smell the stuff they burn in a catholic church, when they offer up there prayers its a smokey stuff, i told a priest that i could smell this stuff, he said it was my prayers accending to the heavens all this happened while i was traveling in the back of a ambulance.
well, i don’t worship the demons, like it says on the webpage for tourism to nan yue in china, when they are explaining the taoists there, i saw that web page and said that’s the same thing as me,
my friend knows i’m trying to end monotheism, capitalism, and gametalism, think he’s with me on the first two in spirit, anyway, one day he says, so i guess you’re promoting polytheism, and i thought about it and said no, i don’t call anything god, am i worshipping anything well kinda, i light an altar to get the attention of heaven, not quite worship but very reverent and respectful, and i treat the tapir and the moon, and the sun, as my teachers, but no, no theism here, and the demons, i love em like i love little kids, fascinating minds, but no i don’t worship them, i find them misguided, and ttry to teach.
and then i saw the webpage said that the taoists on that mountain, the southern sacred peak of ancient history, nan yue, says the taoists don’t call anybody god but kinda worship their teacher and their master.
i do listen to and take as a bible the universe i see before me, in all it’s light and darkness, in it’s reality and unreality, i don’t mean to forsake any of it, not at war with your portion of the universe, simply object to humanity’s claim to be and own it all, when i see it more as humanity in a little cloud of baryons at the center of a much wider spiritual universe, of which we are all a part., i’m for the salvation of it all, humanity included, but i am a luddite as far as humanity’s ideas these days on how to progress forward, much more daoist in my simplistic outlook and direction.
in my plot,
the humans have separated themselves off as a set of demons,
much like the dinosaurs before them,
cut themselves off from the rest of the world,
gone down the hole of human knowledge,
where they have their science and their reason,
but they can’t see everything, can’t understand the dark side,
the 75 percent they have to admit is there and just can’t see.
well, it’s ok for a small portion of humans, i guess,
to go down in the hole and take control of science and stuff.
but there is so much more to the universe and to our potential field of interaction with it
so some of us, hey, either by choice or more likely by being chosen
the dreams come to some of us, i think it may be on our genome,
others may simply be haunted,
i hink its a self regulating flow and always a small percentage
of the humans will open themselves to the spirit world for whatever reason,
but it’s like you open the window,
the shamans used to say i cracked the egg that was suppsed to protect me from that stuff,
but then i said hey, isn’t it true,
escape-driven cracks complete the egg,
gotta crack it sometimes.
once cracked, i think we all freak out,
wonder how come we are chosen to be tortured,
wonder why, no leadership available,
so we submit to being drugged,
but if that doesn’t work, after the decades,
you have to maybe learn to live with the window open on the universe,
it’s demon windy out there,
learn shamanism, it’s available in the bookstores and on the internet,
leadership is available it’s just that you have to look for it.
i don’;t know if i consider it a disease,
if you want the windows closed and they are open, there are ssri’s
but there isn’t alot of help on keeping that window closed.
i learned to wave and smile in the demon wind,
and i think i’m gonna be ok
guess im saying the cause of the suffering is the initial connection of the demon world onto the human host, but that the purpose of that initial torture may be the initiatory phase in shamanism, it takes you out of mundane reality, sets you apart, makes you live more rigidly in a much more intense reality, makes you a priest of your own unreality, a heaven of your own design, so that it may initally seem to be suffering but ultimately have a real purpose.
that it is the openness to the universe that people complain about, and others in a shamanistic society pursue with more care and training and knowledge; not heathen, not demon worshipers, but holy people much more amazing than anything i see in western literature, with a brilliant magic hidden only from those who lack apperception - the ability to see completely different worldviews of others as possibly equally valid, something the western mind in it’s superiority has a hard time doing, so what can we do? leave that world behind in the test tube, y’all seem ok down there i guess,
onderdonk
hey dude, it’s ok, i practice “bracketing”, learned it in existential philosophy, this was either hume or husserl who said this, you can dive deep into a mindset be it a religion or a psychosis, completely setting aside your own personal beliefs so that you can appreciate fully the value of the alternate reality. not to worry, when you are finished you can bring back your old set of beliefs.
Dude the guy taught me that in a library in the bronx when i was in high school. I’m 48 and not a day went by that i wasn’t bracketing furiously as a psychopath with a well built mask of normality, compartmentalizing madness.
so yeah, i am not the typical sz case that can’t get a job, and if you say i don’t have sz, well i agree with you, but there are all those pdocs who just say anything, got plenty of paperwork here to say i’m sz, bipolar, lots of other stuff, and more importantly got the prescriptions to go with the diagnoses, silly pdocs.
but i disagree with your insistence that human society, going to school for instance, is important. Sure somebody can go, whatever, but if one student, or a small percentage of them, are “called” to a special vocation with signs of sz, yes, they should be let go, no more worldly education, that’s not what you need, that world is not what you wil care about, special education for you, shamanic education.
I have written up the proposal as the onderdonk gymnasium, the training school for these kinds of people, they will not be joining society, they will be trained to be super outliers, far outside the human scale of society, living in a multi psychotic reality that they were born for. Like me., If you are one of us, belonging is not what you want to pursue, cause there is no one worth belonging with when you are like this, rather, the point is to understand, and for that, the regular human rigid and frightened thinking style is inappropriate.
and in a disaster, or war, the most useful time to have access to madness, cause now it’;s time to build a new world, who teaches that better than demons?
you have this common and silly vision, that all people should be adults, caretakers, driving cars and watching over the others, but why, why don’t we just elect caretakers, they have to stay sane and drive cars and go to school and hold rational beliefs, then what about a whole other class of those who are cared for, let us think in the think tank, floridly psychotic, dredging up the info of the universe from the demon world, sacrificing our comfort and our togtherness to sit isolated in dark caves or in sensory deprivation chambers, spewing out mystical rhythmic sentences to fly our wishes and intentions out on.
i’m one of those kids. They tried to make me go to school, tried to make me apply myself, never ever convinced me they had anything to offer in return, nor any good reason to pursue their project, so i never really did.
i find that there are minimum requirements in america, it is demanded of the mad now that we “groom” our madness, no violence, no infringment on the imaginary property rights of others, go get some kind of job and get a place to live or secure a tent somewhere and access to food. minimum requirements, nothing about college degree, home and car ownership, interpersonal friendliness, cooperation in any way with humans.
i am making a plea for the dignity and freedom of the irrational and insane in america.
i am a scientist and a rationalist in my litle pinky, on my left hand.
I find that to serve me well.
the rest of me is a grand irrationalist.
much more important part of me!
as far as government,
i think the role of government is to pursue the salvation of the country.
i don’t see shackling the mad to your limited ideas of “reason”
to be any kind of pursuit of salvation.
leave em alone, leave us alone,
if we come asking for help, ok drug us,
it teaches us a lesson,
teaches us that you don’t understand
and have nothing to offer,
then if we walk away,
just let us go.
if we kill members of your society
or infringe on their imaginary rights,
that’s what your law enforcement and detectives are there for.
otherwise, you are not the leader of the sz,
you have nothing to offer,
no guidance, no wisdom, no better knowing, no better understanding,
i am surprised you guys even still imagine that,
the willfull blindness of the WEIRD never ceases to amaze me:
you, the WEIRD, (western educated industrial rich democrats),
the worldly-minded camarilla,
the military -education - industrial complex,
pushing i -don’t-even-know-what anymore with those capital letters,
i think they mean that you have some kind of powerful dignity
that insanity doesn’t have,
but that makes all your capital letters look really silly!
looks like fear.
if we all “go down to the demon world”,
as it sounds like you would never go,
even though it’s like walking down to the basement to get something and coming right back up,
gotta go to the attik sometimes too,
why all this clinging to god and guns in the living room,
relax and walk around with the ghosts, leave your gun in the living room,
guns don’t work here, we just keep coming back to life when you shoot us,
look like you are afraid we will go down and come up with some un normal behavior,
and then what do you do, you don’t want to see that?
\you are afraid? afraid of the powers that lay hidden in our darkness?
afraid of full true reality?
why is it western frightened minds always have to be moving, thinking, ?
they are afraid of the universe all around them, if they stop and sit quietly it’ll come pouring in!!!
why do westerners sit indoors all day and night?
cause if they go outside, and they fall asleep, the powers of the universe from the sun and the moon and the stars will star to accrue to them, and that kind of amazing huge power frightens western minds, so they avoid it, and call it sz, and try to drug those that pursue it into calcifying the third eye…
and i would obviously go on and on you nut, but now i have a bus to catch!!!
(w)onderdonk(ey)
hey i’m back, caught that bus, and a couple more…
one more thing.
i hallucinate. that’s what they call it.
i itch uncontrollably and can’t sleep if i eat food.
any and all food.
i took that on tour,
honestly i was showing up at allergy clinics,
but was always redirected to psychiatry.
the itching is managed by starvation, and by sleeping on a metal sheet to avoid the dust mites,
if you ask me i just have bizzarely sensitive skin.
but every time we go, they say that is textbook sz,
the tactile hallucinations,
cause science has no idea what to make of itching,
no explanation for the phenomenon,
so i come in all itchy and they call it sz.
doesn’t help that i go in with elaborate delusions about my own version of reality.
they don’t always say sz.
in the early years they used to say schizotypal personality disorder, cause it seemed i could control it.;
but when i am desperate and begging to die at the emergency room,
walking away and showing up again hours later,
or walking away only to be brought in on a gurney cause i acted up somewhere else and the cops got involved,
(yeah this one time in ohio, i walk right in to the hospital, say hi, im completely insane and ran out of seroquel and i’d like some more, well they said fine, and i put up with four hours, then they ga ve me nothing, so i headed out in to the city of miamisburg ohio, three hours later i was brought to the same emergency room, in handcuffs, and the cop tried to shush me but i yelled out over the 4 am emergency room beds - i’m back, i’ asked once nicely, but i am from new york and i don’t always have to ask nicely.
\had to stay a few days, they put me on a greyhound with scripts for five powerful psych meds, just please get out of ohio.
on the greyhoud there was another guy, similoar story, similar bunch of scripts.
we got drunk in front of the driver and got kicked off, hung out 8 hours till the next bus.
so hey, yeah, no visual hallucinatin these days cause i’m keepin myself healthy.
but what the hell is with the tactile nonsense, i can’t get that to behave,
except by employing anorexia.
maybe this all oughtta be on an anorexia website then, if this isn’t really sz,
i just need some kind of a note to say that i am sane,
cause nobody, nobody who has ever known me,
thinks i am sane in any way.
one more thing,
worst part of this sz,
i keep on writing to this forum!
i know i should stop
overheated language center reaching out and pulling me,
when i have lots of other things at this point i should be doing,
and as if there was any point to saying anything i’ve said in the last 20,000 words i knocked out up here in the last couple of weeks, not like i am doing anybody any good, i’m an unreality check, it’s actually kinda mean, i don’t feel too unethical yet but i oughtta stop, no body can handle onderdonk thinking for very long, other than me i guess, nobody really cares or wantes to know what this is like, to understand an onderdonk, which is really a very unusual and amazing thing, it’s not evil, or well it is but evil and good together, agako kakological, no splitting the yin yang, no cut down the long part of the banana in the banana split, just keep it whole. madness and reason, demon and man,
you,
comfort.
and that madness of yours you call rationalism,
you aren’t content to practice by yourself,
you get imperialist and want me practicing your madness too,
all the people -
no matter how in appropriate.
comfort, that’s whay i think you all do it.
reason for the sake of comfort, belonging.
is it rational to be rational for no reason? or for the sake of comfort?
the goal of the state is to provide salvation for the people,
not have a powerful military or a robust economy,
no conquering needed, forget those old timey ideas form your monotheism book,
i’m turning over the gambling tables of old timey ideation at the temple of your culture,
but i’ll stop now.
it’s ok,
it’s over.
yes,
many try to escape from the hallucinations,
the “demon”, and i just suggest
we all live together in a big happy family.
i am aware that this is very different from what your society teaches,
i think they are afraid of the new reality because you told them to be,
told them life is for the pursuit of happiness,
that suffering is a bad thing, a problem to be solved with anodynes,
if there’s no drug yet, surely there will be in ten years!!!
no doubt, even though they’ve been repeating this nonsense for 60 years now.
you monotheists told them any thing other than science, reason, and consensual reality
is a “disease”, to be “cured”, all people have to have dignity, live in a giant mono theist-rationalist culture,
we will “suffer no witches”, right ? …
but it is not unique, it is the way many civilizations
integrate the demon world,
and if the meds work for some then whatever,
but when they don’t - for that i am trying to explain the reality
that your culture refuses to talk about -
i think both worlds are real.
the one with the humans, and the one with the demons.
i don’t invite the demons to eat the people,
and i don’t invite the people to eat the demons.
i don’t call for demons and i don’t call for people.
i wake up in the morning and deal with the situation.
people are one thing to manage,
demons are another.
many religions throw the baby out wih the bath water,
like hitler killing jews, maybe not the best well-thought out idea,
all i’m saying is not splitting what i encounter into good and bad.
the people in the world, around me? ok, try to be nice, try not to upset them.
the demons in the world, around me? same thing, don’t upset them, no need to slay the demons,
i wouldn’t call myelf a religious person, more o a complete nut,
i think i am using my madness in a way similar to religion;
you get completely sidetracked about me when you think and talk about demons,
hey there are ants in my backyard, too, and i am not going out and buying poison and
pulling up all the dirt and killing ant nests, same with the demons, so i’m infested with them,
it’s ok,
the religion aspect of it is not to “call” demons or to “call” people",
rather, when i do altar and ritual, it is to make a connection,
a bridge between heaven an earth, as well as between the human and the demon world but that is secondary,
the main thing i’m trying to do is make myself more whole in my outlook by listening to the universe this way.
i could listen to the humans but i tried that and it didn’t work out for me, just trying to find a better way of life.
no demons for sale. they are free, on the wind, and you don’t need me fo rthat.
i am not pulling anything in to this world or pushing anything out of it,
i am just trying to do the right thing with my day, cultivate myself and walk toward the salvation of the universe.
the way of the humans doesn’t seem to have anything to do with pursuing salvation,
seems concerned exclusively with comfort, and so i loose resepct for any religion about comfort,
maybe the “religious” thing about me then is i’m not running toward comfort, that isn’t an obstacle for me.
and as far as “telling other people”, i am not trying to control other people, if they have “hallucinations” and want to go to the doctor for “meds” to “normate”, let them go i am not trying to stop them.
eventually many who try that give up on that, as i did, and the science has nothing else to offer at that point, so once you are out on your own like that, then you think in whatever way will work for you, and you have to leave human thinking behind, because it didn’t work out, didn’t solve your issue.
so human reality, it’s fine for humans like that i guess, if everything is working for you then stick with it.
it doesn’t work for evcerybody though so people should realize there are other realities to live in,
\it’s ok to be an outlier and talk to the demons as well as the people, manage your own madness,
you get caught up thinking i’m worshipping demons, that i’m calling demons that will hurt the people.
not though. not trying to attack anybody, not trying to change anybody’s world,
other than to say there is more available than science would have you believe,
there are other perfectly valid ways of being in the world that have nothing to do with “science” or “reason”,
it is not a “disease” to not want to participate wiht the humans in their silly club,
sometimes we have to walk out the door and find something better
suffering not a consideration if you aren’t hung up on comfort like a monotheist’
suffering and joy just two sides of the same nonsense, something to be left behind,
educated out of, so no i do not try to relieve the suffering of others,
think they should just figure out to leave suffering and joy behind altogether and
searchi for mystery and wonder.
not a “religious” person,
yes i “link” with the demon world, because they are my family.
i also “link” with the human world, cause they are my family too.
i don’t “pray”; i do talk and ask questions,
i don’t judge the face of the demon to be “ugly”
any more than i judge the face of humanity to be “ugly”,
i consider your world one small part of the “real world”,
just as your scientists do - they can only see the baryons,
the 25 % of the universe that is visible,
and though they try they can’t see the “dark matter”,
that they know is all arond us just not made of something we can “see”,
doesn’t mean it isn’t real, any more ugly than your portion of the world,
doesn’t mean someone who looks there thinks only that is real,
just saying that for you the universe is like a person’s house,
and i’m saying that if you remove the roof and open up to the wider universe,
it’s still real, still valid, and not “ugly”
and if you think it’s so ugly leave it alone then,
it’s not for you…
The time we live in is great,
because our questions have not been answered yet,
and the stirrings of magic have begun.
The core of mystery is the human heart,
more so than deep space or the inner earth;
and it’s laughing is an answer full of hope.
Some tales will end sweetly,
others will be processed by the grinding wind.
Still, hope is something all can share in;
hope for ourselves, hope for eachother.
-(w)onderdonk(ey)
when i was 35, there was a ceremony, my demon family welcomed me and showed me my magic.
among other things they revealed their extensive work with genetics.
they tell me that they complete our genome,
that they are designing it as a castle that will collapse in on itself in the middle of the night,
they show me how the genome is varied,
not, they say, the way human scientists currently do it - just swapping out a single gene here or there.
rather, there is a big glass, like a cylinder, like a crystal, and as it turns it produces different patterns,
each complete pattern is an alternative genome, the whole set that goes together.
during that episode where the family was initiating me and showing me my magic,
one of the women demons said something like “show him the genome” but we never got to it.
they did do something strange, while we were walking up the stairs,
the demon rubbed his hand on the wall in a curious and precise pattern,
and beneath where he rubbed it said on the wall “human master”,
so i get the idea that they are trying to tell me they are in charge of the genome,
that they can do what they want on it,
that they ride on it as the rna and junk dna,
and can turn on and off genes according to the twisting crystal glass they use,
or they can plant cancer, not to be mean, just as a test,
we put humans to the test all the time planting cancer time bombs,
you know how demons are though, they lie,
i’m not taking any of their genetics training too seriously.
olga kitharti said maybe demons are the spirits of trauma,
collected onto the genome,
i’ve held that theory more than others i guess;
also think it’s the stuff we eat,
the parasites in the food,
in the gut, i suspect that is where the demons are located,
so multiple theories,
i don’t really know who the demon is,
yes, he sure is mad,
all my life i notice he is maniacal in countenance,
always wondered why that was.
the shaman i used to see
said the demons are our ancestors,
and they are angry cause they are trying to
tell us something that we didn’t listen to the
first 5000 times.
and you, you say it’s madness,
you don’t really say what it is,
you just say it isn’t for you,
and it isn’t for any people who are schizophrenic.
but it is for us shamans,
we know the secret of traveling between the worlds.
maybe it does change our life that we follow this path,
we become less worldly,
less involved in commerce, in war,
maybe that’s why you object,
anyway,
it’s a different worldview,
it’s valid,
maybe you object to propogating this
as schizophrenia, but not as propogating shamanism?
or maybe that’s just heathens talking to demons
and they’d be better off putting on a suit and tie
and going to church on sunday,
that’d be fine propblem is you don’t provide
an outlet for them to be magical all the other hours of the week,
only get to be magical while praying in church.
yeah, i realize i’m saying lay down in the snow and go to sleep,
when you are complaining about cold;
i realize it’s a different direction, that’s why i’m making the effort to point it out.
i’m no humanist.
i’m not proud of my humanity,
i see no dignity in this,
so as far as any kind of human notions of “wisdom,logic,reasonableness or realistic” -
not really interested in that.
i am proud of my eukaryotic treasure chest,
an inheritance that has very little to do with human mind
and much more to do with our life as cells in an organism.
i understand that the direction i offer
will not lead you to integration with humanity
and their project of the umwelt -
the test tube of human knowledge.
it will not lead to belonging.
but the direction i offer may lead to understanding,
may lead to a nightmare,
and may lead to a beautiful and magical dream,
you never know,
so that’s why i practice madness,
i practice irrationality,
in your society they call this sz,
could kinda call it shamanism,
go ahead and call it sz if you want,
i think it’s a beautiful life, and a beautiful destiny,
and i’m in love with the universe,
and you know, you really oughtta just leave a crazy guy like that be,
your only other choice really is to shoot me.
i really do suspect
some of those harikari suicide sz cases,
are just cases o lack of training,
lack of understanding,
that if they had some shamanism training
in a different culture,
if they weren’t told they were sick and chemically imbalanced,
maybe things would have turned out differently.
responderdonk
i’m with you man,
i do not know,
i practice not-knowing,
i’m an irrationalist;
and these aren’t really beliefs,
as much as they are theories,
yeah, i got theories about what’s going on with me,
and I like em better than your theories.
you know,
if i were to stand here and pronounce
on what the demon is,
who he is,
as you seem to want to lead me to do,
with any kind of conviction,
well that would be schizophrenia,
insisting on an irrational belief.
i can’t tell you he is a gene,
i can’t tell you he is a spirit,
i can’t tell you he is in my imagination
i can’t tell you he is a collective unconscious,
i can;t tell you he is the hive mind of the fungal world come to attack our consciousness in a war between species;
these are all interesting ideas worth entertaining,
and to be more personal,
i can’t tell you why i feel ghost bugs crawling on me in the middle of the night.
a pdoc a long time ago said
onderdonk, if you came in here insisting there were bugs under your skin,
that would be schizophrenia,
but you come here saying you don’t know what it is,
with twelve different ideas about what it could be,
that’s not schizophrenia, that’s just trying to figure something out.
theories a thrpough j, a for allergies b for brain tumor c for chemical exposure d for demons e for everything f and g set aside for the future expandeability of the theory, h for hegel books, i for i don;t know, and j for jesus, he wore a crown of thorns and i wear the full body kind cause i’m later in history and there are more of mankind’s sins now to atone for.
you offer nothing,
other than standard
religion and science.
if i need that i know where to find it.
thanks.
I agree that it is all a mist,
the disappearing mist of personality and action,
spray from the storm of irrationality.
this is my magic.
sure it’s pointless,
as pointless as your existence;
wu-wei, not-for-the-purpose-of-something.
a schizophrenic not born but made.
responderdonkey
you say it like it’s a bad thing,
but it sounds like good news,
it sounds like your point is i’m cured,
no sz here, well, happy to hear it,
like i said i think i need a note cause
everybody thinks i’m insane.
but i’m not trying to do anything
but be phantasmagoric.
i mean they all tell me i’m insane,
that it’s sz, and they tell me everything i say
is unintelligible nonsense,
so i keep it to myself,
except for posting on a delusions website,
so the point is n’t
“this is what the ontological nature of someone else’s disease really is”,
the point is more
“i’m a crazy guy and here are my latest delusions”,
I really thought that was the point,
and i was doing my job thinking up new delusions
every day.
though when this web site changed, the sub forum of delusions, beliefs, and hallucinations disappeared i think, so i am in the forum that contained it,
maybe you are just telling me to leave, that’s ok,
you guys aren’t providing much interesting info these days.
once in a while though,
you never know.
i also say i’m a fisher of men,
cause yeah every year or two
i meet someone delusional
who likes to create delusions like me,
and we work on it together a little.
i do get some great ideas that way.
but honestly, this site is not the great source of wild ideas you would think it could be.,
majority here want normality,
and the few who kind of want to think
are on too many meds to be able to.
this week i dropped out of all my other psychotic hobbies,
a couple times a year i do this, drop everything i am reading
and redirect the daily hours to work, I do IT
and I have to learn netscaler, create new course material
cause it’s ridiculous what citrix puts out there,
takes me a couple of weeks to redevelop the course material,
so i’m just not as psychotic the last few days as i could or should be.
i’d say more weird stuff to you, more phantasmagoric nonsense,
cause for some reason you read it, when it doesn’t seem to be your kind of thing,
people like you say i push their buttons, and this thread has gone on so long i am starting to feel guilty.
yeah another week or two on the netscaler stuff,
once that;s done i will go back to all the psychotic taoist stuff,
the super delusional reading about extreme mystical peaks of thought,
and get back to being my old crazy self.
in the mean time i fear i have become too sane to continue,
got nothing anymore, currently not really developing any psychoses
other than the structure of slides to teach netscaler.
don’;t worry, i only do this a few weeks a year,
the rest of the year i stay very psychotic.
who knows, some day i may actually achieve schizophrenia,
and find out for you the ontological nature of the demon’s face!
I promise to ask him next time i see him.
my goal actually is to achieve catatonic schizophrenia,
like nietzche, like the guy at the end of the pbs series called “the lathe of heaven”,
he would dream new realities and wake up into changed worlds,
till one day he had a dream and we don’t know what it was,
cause he went to catatonic sz;
nietzche too, another really crazy german guy like me.
so yeah, i wondered what it could be that could be so fascinating
that you just drop out into catatonic sz.
i think it might be the ontological face of the demon!
onderdonkey,
hey man it’s a marketable skill, put a resume out there that says you know citrix, and know netscaler, and see if you don’t get several calls a day from around the country offering job interviews.
i used to teach all the citrix courses, they told me to cease and desist, cause the two departments - education and courseware, at citrix in ft lauderdale, really really suck and everybody knows it. When i was a citrix instructor i wrote a new book for every version of citrix, completely overwhelming the course material and teaching much more efficiently via diagrams instead of words and screens.
citrix told me to cease and desist, that i am threatening the livelihoods of alot of people and their families.
so check out this threat i am about to send out to the citrix training centers… firs several slides for the new netscaler course i’m developing, way better than the copy and pasted admin guide they push out as courseware for a $2000 week of training.
this is my sz mak ng me annoying to a whole industry of people, nothing they can do about me.
…
yeah, unfortuanately i have no delusions to offer today
this is what i’ve wasted my potentially soteriological mind on -
the mundane world of finite reality.
a sane person, not born but made.
back in a couple of weeks i hope.
First off, ALL of you who hear voices, for sure 100% have barely magnetic metals in each ear and probably in your left or right hip. You can find these by getting 10 torus neodymium magnets and 10 neodymium cube magnets. Place the cube magnets up to the front of your ear/temple area and bend the torus magnets back and swipe them close to your ear until you feel sensation under the skin. I use a combination of mental energy moving, nerve manipulation, topical solutions, tooth brushing solutions and dead matter blocking material, mainly charcoal, velcroe, cell phone plastics/rubber, basicly its a 1-2 punch situation each day to isolate the sound to outside the house only or where fans are moving.
I believe a schizophrenic can be born and also made. It can be due to with one’s brain chemistry and can be passed along our genes. Also I believe society can put an enormous pressure and stress on an individual. For me, I had outside factors like being harassed by other people that caused me to be diagnosed.
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to atabo, “With all respect it seems that you have not sz for these reasons,” I believe that real people are inside my body and outside harrassing me and I was diagnosed with Sz. But people tell me it is sz and i think my problem is real. What can i due to lessen intrusive thoughts and prevent people being inside my body and reading my mind. I tried seeing a spiritual person going to church but nothing has helped. I feel i am constantly being monitored. Medication has helped me with anxiety.
sz is in the genes partly