What do you think?
Most articles says big ‘no’, main reason is that we cannot find it with any scans or tests. And overall mental and neurological problems are qiite different in my opinion.
Overall American psychiatric association says SZ is brain disorder, but as I read lots of literature, untill we don’t have real proof, scan, it’s not 100% accurate statement. Though I also do not believe it’s spiritual or only emotional problem.
Your opinion?
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Schizophrenia cannot be categorized as a neurological disorder because it runs in my family so it’s sick genes.
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You’re right, SZ as a brain disorder is an hypothesis currently, maybe viable, but not confirmed as is clearly manifest in its diagnosis. It was in part pushed in an attempt to reduce stigma, not sure about the efficacy of that, in my country the tide is turning.
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Clearly schizophrenia IS a neurological disorder in many cases. It CAN be seen on a brain scan sometimes when you are looking for differences in brain volume.
That being said, I think there are some cases of “schizophrenia” where it is not noticeable. Perhaps the diagnosed cases of “schizophrenia” do not have the same cause? IDK.
I don’t think scans are an effective tool for diagnosing at the current time, but if you know someone has schizophrenia at the current time and do scans over time, the accelerated shrinkage can be detected in some cases, I believe. It appears that this is due to the disorder itself, but some people feel medications my contribute or be the cause themselves.
I’m having an MRI tomorrow. Will be interesting to see if there are any abnormalities and will let you know.
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That will be very interesting!
Wish the best of luck to you. Wishing good result! @Bowens
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You’re saying the scans are not good enough, but let us imagine there are perfect scans, what exactly would we want to see on a brain scan that tells us more clearly this person is having schizophrenia than the presentation of delusions and hallucinations etc would? If it truly is a brain disease, information from the brain would tell us more unambiguously than mental phenomena would. I think there currently is no idea of such a marker, and if there would be one it would change the meaning of the concept schizophrenia. Brain shrinkage? Does it more clearly indicate sz than delusions etc?
Seriously, dude. Don’t tell me what I’m saying. I nowhere said that. Don’t put words in my mouth.
As for the rest of it. I can point you to study after study where they found brain shrinkage in many sz patients. If you’d like me to link some I can.
What I was saying, is that I don’t think it’s always the case, but often is. Never did I say anything about the scans not being “good enough”
If you want to deny the facts to make yourself feel better, feel free. But whether you want to believe its sz, ap’s, a combination of the two, or something esle. Many sz’s have an accelerated reduction in brain volume.
Let me know if youd like me to post a dozen articles on the subject.
I must have misunderstood this, I am sorry.
In any case, I am not denying anywhere that there are all kinds of results associated with SZ in the brain, I am only saying that it is inappropriate and incoherent to call SZ a brain disorder. I consider that a claim of faith or pseudoscience, but each is free to believe what he wants.
To spell it out: some phenomenon being with some percentage of significance associated with events in the brain does not make it a brain phenomenon.
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It’s fine but…
I said it was a neurological disorder in many cases.
" Neurological disorders are medically defined as disorders that affect the brain as well as the nerves found throughout the human body and the spinal cord . Structural, biochemical or electrical abnormalities in the brain, spinal cord or other nerves can result in a range of symptoms."
With all the evidence of accelerated volume loss in many…I’m not seeing how it can be denied as being defined as such in some. Unless you are a believer that meds or other factors not related to the disorder itself are exclusively causing the acceleration.
Sz is a biochemical disorder. Dopamine imbalance. Also like @Bowens said, sometimes the is reduced brain volume, thinning of gray matter.
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Which further proves its a Neurological disorder by the definition above, I might add.
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yes i agree. Dont they say that even the Myelin shealthing around the nerves is reduced or very different in SZ?
“Scientific evidence that ranges from the microscale cellular and subcellular levels to the macroscale connectomic level strongly supports overall myelin dysfunction and brain disconnection as hallmarks of schizophrenia and bipolar disorder.”
Insights into myelin dysfunction in schizophrenia and bipolar disorder - PMC.
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also enlarged ventricals are well documented as i understand it…
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Yes it’s possible that schizophrenia is a neurological disease, as many psychiatrists are certified in neurology as well.
I mean schizophrenia at its core is a chemical imbalance of the brain, but the truth is that there is so much more to learn about severe mental illnesses like schizophrenia and bipolar.
But very few neurologists treat mental illnesses like schizophrenia
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I don’t honestly see how there is any doubt. The very definition of a neurological disorder includes “structural and biochemical abnormalities in the brain”. There are definitely biochemical abnormalities and in most cases, structural abnormalities as well. But maybe I’m just being pig headed.
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No you are right @Bowens
Schizophrenia is a neurological disease but many doctors and specialists don’t treat it at such.
And you can forget about the general population
I’m predicting that in the not so far future more and more neurologists will be treating mental illnesses
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I meant to say that in the future mental illnesses like schizophrenia and bipolar will be handled by neurologists
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personally i think its a problem thats been around since the ancient times of hippocrates. People sort of mystifying mental illnesses… its an odd topic because it involves the organ (the brain) which is something like the seat of consciousness.
i personally dont see it as so confusing though. Its just like any other disease.
for example the heart gets sick with heart disease… we treat the heart with meds to calm the heart and then proceed to help the person reduce the stress and environmental stressors in their life (smoking etcs) to reduce heart strain.
same with the brain. theres a genetic physical potential which becomes realized after environmental stress to the organ of the brain (breakups etc which causes the brain to be overworked and stressed) and it gets sick.
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Its like a man with a bad leg carrying a lot of boxes that fall on him when they get too heavy for him… first thing you want to do is remove the weight from him (environmental stressors), and then you can work on treating the leg to make sure it doesn’t happen again which is more tricky.
only difference is its not his leg, its his brain; and its not boxes, its events causing oxidative stress on the brain.
schizophrenic’s inherit brains that are genetic copies of their predecessors which have a brain whose health is weakened slightly…then environmental factors can cause that brain to get sicker and fall into psychosis
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It has happened before I believe that psychiatric conditions were redefined as neurological conditions. What it takes for such to occur is to identify the neurological causes with such certainty that they are more reliable than the symptoms, in this case the mental phenomena like delusions hallucinations etc. I don’t think we are at this point now.
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