Sactuary helpful for schizophrenia/psychosis?

Very contentious/controversial area, but here it is all the same -

“Although out reach and crisis services are needed, without a 24/7 front end system sanctuary like Soteria, CooperRiis, Diabasis House, the Open Dialogue or the sanctuary - folks don’t have a chance to avoid having their potentially transformative psychosis being aborted with medications and a Schizophrenic diagnosis being laid on them for the rest of their lives. Loren Mosher on alternative approaches to psychosis, was agreed that all the sanctuaries like Laing’s Kingsley Hall, John Weir Perry’s Diabasis House, Soteria, Burch House, Windhorse, the Agnews Project. And the med free, no restraints, no diagnosis, open door Ward sanctuary; plus the Euorpean and Scandanavian Open Dialogue places- well they ALL basically do the same thing. They provide the necessary and sufficient conditions for a person to go through a psychotic process and come out the other side-‘Weller than well’- as Karl Menninger famously said. By being held in the healing crucible of a caring, open hearted setting, the psyche naturally sets it’s own course and heals from the early wounds that made a dramatic psychosis renewal necessary in the first place. If instead, a person is labelled as having a diseased brain and medicated into emotional numbness and submission, then the energy and power and symbolic expression of the purposive psychosis simply falls back into the unconscious. Then whenever a loss or trauma happens, the person de-compensates into an ever more amorphous emotional and fragmented daze of so-called chronic psychosis where renewal and healing is far more difficult.”


“I have now, after long practical experience, come to hold the view that the psychogenic causation of the disease is more probable than the toxic [physico-chemical] causation. There are a number of mild and ephemeral but manifestly schizophrenic illnesses - quite apart from the even more common latent psychoses - which begin purely psychogenically, run an equally psychological course (aside from certain presumably toxic nuances) and can be completely cured by a purely psychotherapeutic procedure. I have seen this even in severe cases”.

  • Carl Jung

Jung & Schizophrenia

Eighty-odd years ago, Jung voiced his deep concern that the powerful, often vivid, chaotic and disturbing psychology of schizophrenia, which he had so painstakingly chartered and honoured throughout the many years he treated and healed schizophrenia sufferers, had not been given the respect and serious attention it deserved. He likewise lamented the appalling lack of knowledge of the psychology of schizophrenia among those of his own profession, a situation which has changed precious little today.

Sadly, however, Jung’s vast body of invaluable work has fallen for the most on hostile ground and deaf ears, ironically in psychiatric circles, largely because Jung’s respect for ‘the reality of the psyche’ and its religious, mythic and spiritual needs, dimensions and instincts poses a threat to the materialist bias that underscores drug-based, or biologic psychiatry, but also because his personally demanding and soul-centred approach to psychiatry is radically at odds with the detached ‘illusion of expertise’ on which biologic psychiatry’s mask of authority, presumed sanity, and stagnant wasteland of ‘brain chemistry’ dogma are shakily grounded.

In place of dry textbook knowledge learned by rote, Jung gives precedence to living primary experience, hence his assertion that we understand nothing psychologically unless we’ve experienced it. In this sense, the people who know most about schizophrenia are the sufferers themselves, followed closely by those who have ‘been there’ and have pulled themselves out of a psychosis and so ‘know the road’. Such folk, as invaluable ‘wounded healers’, can therefore often guide others groping along similar roads, or pull people out of the quagmires and tricky labyrinths of psychosis.

Equal Therapeutic Dialogue

In place of the practitioner’s mask of fatherly authority, Jung puts the mutual vulnerability, openness, imaginal richness, honesty and trust of the therapeutic dialogue, in which patient and therapist confront one another on equal terms and through which both stand to learn and grow. In place of forced treatment, hasty consultations and toxic psychiatric drugs, Jung puts a trust in nature, unconscious wisdom and the healing which, residing in the ‘patient patient’, is catalysed and midwifed by the caring therapist. No wonder he poses a threat to those who esteem power, professional detachment, diplomas, diagnostic manuals and drug company profits over the empowerment, equality, freedom, healing and dignity of the patient.

Needless to say, there are other closely related and equally grave moral issues at stake here. For instance, imagine, if you will, that a reputable medical practitioner had come forward with evidence of a safe, natural cure for cancer, but that the medical establishment had ignored the evidence and, worse still, had kept the findings from cancer sufferers for fear of losing income and power through their monopoly over the provision of existing anti-cancer ‘treatments’, which do not heal. By the same token, Jung - and others who have followed in his wake - cured his schizophrenic patients with psychotherapy alone. The tragedy of the ‘mental health crisis’ is not only, then, that so many already fragile and wounded people have been damaged and driven to suicide; what is equally tragic is that all along, there have existed natural, re-empowering, healing alternatives to psychiatric drugs; alternatives which biologic psychiatry, the Government, Schizophrenia Fellowships and drug companies have in a morally disgraceful way ignored, or deliberately kept from sufferers and the public."

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That is a lot of text to copy and paste here. Please just quote one or two paragraphs and the provide a link so we don’t run into copywriter violation issues,

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some people want a quick fix and some people will put more work in.

Will in future - i don’t have links - part of it is from a forum post years ago & the other a file i had on the computer.

Do genuinely comprehensive, caring & humane psychological/social approaches to ‘madness’ really Not interest people? Do people just feel that none of it works? & we have brain disease & the best thing is drugs. i’m bemused at the general lack of interest, denial & invalidation of these alternatives. i can understand the denial from the pharmacological/biomedical psychiatric Industry - But i find it harder to understand from the community of the ‘mentally ill’. The majority of psychologists also largely remain very quiet about it all.

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What a load of rubbish!!!
Do you really wonder why we don’t like anti psychiatry propaganda ?
Think about this:
We have life long psychosis so we take antipsychotics !
What’s to understand ?

i’ve come to an acceptance of my illness/diagnosis/condition & i accept taking the medication, & that i’ll likely be on it for life & with this illness for life.

i do however feel that i could have been & could be far better helped with appropriate understanding & support. i’ve Not had that - does that mean it doesn’t work or that it’s all rubbish?

Am thinking of going back to the Doctor & increasing the medication again, as much as i don’t want to. My life has been & is very difficult. Feel like i can’t cope any more, & that i’m headed to another episode.

Would kinder, more caring, understanding & humane approaches help? i feel it would.

So why preach that it’s so great to have a place where u can go to live through psychosis
And come out all better ?
It’s dangerous to type rubbish
Why debate something that saves millions of lives and preach that some other way that would kill most of these people off👿
In fact it’s a bit like saying ‘I take meds but would prefer to use homeopathy’ and go and live in a commune

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You omit a very important point: Jung and Freud existed in a time when there were no antipsychotic drugs available.

I’m a product of Jungian Analysis and I know it’s value. For all intents and purposes I’ve had a nearly full recovery. Did I do this without the help of medication? Of course not! Do I take medication now? Of course I do!

Both approaches are incomplete, most modern Jungian or Freudian therapists advocate dual therapies. Only the extreme lunatic fridge advocate this sort of nonsense.

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i think it’s a very complex question/picture, & very individual as well.

For various/whatever reasons, some people fully recover/heal from psychosis medication free - & i don’t see that can be debated - it’s a fact. Is that because they weren’t as severe &/or because they had far more genuine understanding, help & support? Or for other reasons?

i have posted this kind of material, more so in the past, as it’s a question that i don’t think is fully answered. Yes, for some people medication is vital - i’m Not anti a wise use of medication. Yes, we need front line services. But from a point of view of the efficacy of far more humane/comprehensive psychological/social/alternative approaches - i don’t really understand the venom & hatred directed towards to it?

As for people being killed off we’re’ dying on average 20 years younger than everyone else - likely directly because of neuroleptic medication & poor treatment.

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hey cloudy plz dont hate homeopathy and commune …homeopathy might come out with evolutionary breakthrough some day …but i am a huge supporter
of psy medication.i only have few difference with psy medication…

  1. cause a lot of side effects. like weight gain , foggyness on mind ,affects neuro transmitter ,etc etc
    as a postive side…
  2. quick help in controlling symptoms
    2.gives a person a chance to live in extreme cases…
    3.cheap and accessible
    hope in near future psy med come with outstanding effective positive effects like treating like curing it…
    thanks
    i also going to try ap in near future …
    god bless love u all…
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trying not to bite the hatred and venom
You said yourself: recover from psychosis
Not from life long schizophrenia
These are two different conditions
In parts of the world people recover more often without medication than they do in the ‘west’.
As no one has got to the bottom of this I don’t suggest going and living in a commune To find out whether we can work it all out

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i don’t think it’s that’s simple. All schizophrenia is is prolonged/multiple episodes of psychosis.

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I don’t actually hate communes at all or homoeopathy I am just illustrating that things like that for emotional support cannot cure schizophrenia alone without meds
I have stayed on many many weeks of Buddhist and yoga retreats … Living in a community it was wonderful
I have also trained in Bach flower remedies, which although they don’t go as far as the memory of water they supplied a tiny amount of active emotional support From flowers
I have trained in yoga, theory of Chinese medicine and acupuncture and pressure point message, shiatsu… I’ve been extremely lucky
Family support, money, education, I don’t know I’m born
Caring helps everyone it’s just not a cure for sz

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How much is social/environmental/familial & psychological/emotional? i’d wager a massive part of it all is.

How much is it all a genetic caused brain disease? Well the jury appears to be out on that one.

okay cloudy thanks that u went on with a lot of alternative like yoga chinese medicine living in a commune as i am from asia(nepal) alot of commune are found here… okay u really hit it …thanks for niece piece of information i will take it as insight …by the way where r u from and how old are u…sorry u can keep ur privacy… thanks a lot…

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I’m 40, I’m in the UK x

Nice to read U…
Thanks

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i really enjoyed it can it be still possible…
i also want a cure for schizorphenia…
apo i dont want 2 take ap…
but i will cerainly take…no way out …
i wish to have girl friend …be in a relation…

imo i agree with Jung (& others) that the primary aetiology in the vast majority of cases is psychogenic & a cure can be effected with the right understanding, help & support. Sadly that isn’t the society/system we’re living under. Give things another 200 years at least.

i’d like a girlfriend too, have been single 16 years.

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