Towards a more objective schizophrenia diagnosis


#21

I think you’d need a more coherent argument based on previous research to convince any researcher to spend their time testing this idea.


#22

I don’t think there’s anything here - they can take skin samples from someone with schizophrenia and generate induced neural stem cells that are different from healthy controls. If you propose that samples are different if the donor is awake or asleep, by what biological mechanism would this happen?


#23

1-The Sz case/cause linking with the time-place of conscious state during all possible time of waking,
2- all internal phenomena,processes and events of sz case/cause are happening in the conscious mind/brain in the present time,full attention and waking
3-Sz case/cause disappear completely during the time of sleep,dream and absence of conscious,whereas all types of effect stop working, completely nothing occurs in these period of times (Rest area),it means in practice the sleep is a rest house)

-After 2/4 week or many months of the medication,and the person becomes responsive to it
4- Any person with Real sz will feels Ultimate Rest from Sz case/cause during sleep time ,it is like a time of actual recovery during a day ,for example he will never sees the imaginary persons or/ hearing the “voices” or/ suffers from emotional changes or any symptom
5- Any person with Sz knows these facts without teacher or/theoretical ideas ,therefor he does not spend his time testing this Facts !
6- How is not knows these facts needs to spends his time testing these Facts (not idea)


#24

If sz case linking with the biological machine and becomes a part of it ,and sz case considering as an organic disease in root
in this position,The brain producing abnormal chemical substances along 24 hours
Abnormal chemical substance =the disease substance in the body
it is supposed that,the disease is exists and running all time of day (24 hours)

According to this hypothesis,the abnormal chemical substance(s) will be arisen in the body while the person asleep,and this means that all symptoms are exist and running while the person asleep

In practice,during the time of deep sleep,all persons with sz are unable to perceive the existence of the sz case/cause,add for that all psychological symptoms,mental,cognitive and emotional changes are stop working completely ,the case and symptoms are disappear without exception

After wake up moment,the sz case/cause and effect and all symptoms come back (rebirth ),whereas the sz case linking with the wholly conscious life (Self) all time of waking and disappears in the time of sleep (no exception for this synchronization/associate all lifetime of sz )

It is psychological linkage not biological !
A sample from the donor while asleep must be have not the manifestation of brain imbalance,

In other words;whatever sz is in it nature, the sz case/condition/event/ disease/illness does not exists while the donor asleep (psychological or/ biological ) !!
Coexistence time with the thing be called the (self) or/ the (conscious mind) or/ (the psychological component ) or the mental life be Equal the time of the thing be called schizophrenia


#25

I don’t think there have been any findings of abnormal chemical substances, but if there is a paper published in a reputable journal, link it.

All of the papers I have seen find just the usual chemicals (neurotransmitters), but sometimes in the wrong amounts, wrong place, or wrong times. And that’s just the chemical side, there’s also the structural, connective, etc.

Adding this one paper just on GABA. Just one of the neurotransmitters.

This study demonstrates, for the first time, an in vivo impairment in GABA transmission in schizophrenia, most prominent in antipsychotic-naive individuals. The impairment in GABA transmission appears to be linked to clinical symptoms, disturbances in cortical oscillations, and cognition.

One of the most consistent and replicated postmortem findings in schizophrenia is the reduced expression of mRNA encoding the 67-kD isoform of glutamic acid decarboxylase (GAD67), the enzyme principally responsible for the synthesis of gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) (1). The deficit in GAD67 mRNA appears to be prominent in the parvalbumin-containing subset of GABA neurons and to be conserved with similar magnitude across multiple cortical regions (2). These findings may be interpreted as a reduced capacity for cortical GABA production.


#26

Thanks to display this information, it is true
No abnormal chemical substance(s) causation a disorder in the brain of person with Sz !
Like I say: the main schizophrenic process do not need to abnormal chemical substances to developing the brain imbalance features !
The number(rate) of the schizophrenic process in the time units (of waking)must be causation more amounts of electrochemical pulses,changing the natural path of the pulse and causation the time acceleration or deceleration

Whereas ,arising an abnormal biochemicals in brain is the ideal model of the genetic disease
Just you can monitor some wrong amounts,wrong place or timing (the arisen rate in time unite)

In the same time, in the cognitive side (mental processes) you will see a Radical changing in the mental concept of the current higher mental process,has seeks to establishing the delusional concept

The question;
What is the causality relationship between the wrong amounts,place and time of neurotransmitters With the fresh delusional concept ?
The changing that occur in the cognitive concept of the idea that has been treated by the conscious mind/brain of the person,whereas the concept (A) has changed into concept (B),whereas the concept “B” were classified by your observations as a delusional believe/false belief or a mental concept that do not connected with the actual reality …etc

What is the effect of the amount,place and time ON the cognitive alterations(concept exchange) ?
How can coding amount of neurotransmitters be translated into Deliberate Cognitive Changes ?
where from the changing in the mental message concept coming from ?

Notice that,the cognitive change in a concept of single mental process that has been running now in the conscious mind/brain of one person with Sz is Endless and not Limited

I.E ,the original meaning of a single mental message running now in the mind/brain is endless,and the changing that occur in the original meaning is endless too,that is for one person with sz
how can decoding the amount into cognitive exchanging in each higher knowledge process( they are about more than teen thousands during single day ) !


#27

If i am a biological thinker,I will thinking and answer about the above questions like that:
1-the cells brain is prepares and produces the delusional concept
-the cells brain is the source of broadcasting the signs of sensory perception outputs,retrospected memory events,imaginary pictures of things,abstract thoughts,practice thoughts
-according for this idea,the delusional concept will be synthesis inside the cells brain Before launching the neurotransmitters pulses

  • For some reasons,the brain/mind of person producing wrong thoughts-this is happening as a result of usual conscious mental process that dealing with the data inputs wrongly -that is !
    therefore there is no causality relationship between the pulse and the modified cognitive concept
    -and it is supposed that, this is happens without arising any abnormal chemical substances in the brain !

-As you see this is rational thinking,but in reality it is irrelevant the schizophrenic process at all !
because,the inner phenomena that you call it (the idea/thought or/ the mental message or/ the mental sign or/ the meaning message or the cognitive sign ) are 2 united phenomenon,divided into a body (transporter body or tool ) be called the neurotransmitter or/ chemical transporter ,while the second part is the coded message content (information)

-the chemical transporter has transportation the coded message within its protein structure,moving from the source area into all interested brain cells ,whereas the decoding of the message will be done in the receptor after receiving the message (reading the implied content concept ),therefore you will know what is the idea says /tells you

-Keeping (protection) the mental information message content inside the chemical transporter

The main schizophrenic process will be starting after the receptor receiving the message and reading its implied content
( I.E after you know the meaning content of the message NOT before )
1- An emergence of a strange pulse has seeks to objection the natural pathway of the understood message,a bilateral collision has occurs between the stranger pulse and the understood message
2- this powerful collision is the introduction for all types of changes /disorders in the brain balance state,the psychological existence,mental ,emotional, movement and behavior responses


#28

I’m not entirely sure what you’re trying to say, but it seems like you think you can solve all the questions about schizophrenia just by thinking really hard. This is not how biology normally works. It’s not how we learn things about our bodies. Correct me if I’m wrong, but you haven’t actually studied biology, or anything else related to this, right? Because it looks like the basic biological knowledge is missing from your reasoning. I think you’re really far out there with your current thinking. It’s not possible to reach any conclusions about the things you’re trying to solve just by thinking differently. Are you in treatment currently?


#29

Just for the scientist who working to know the essential nature of the schizophrenic process ,who wants facing the real actual data of schizophrenia,who is do nothing to deny them or/ escape from them by writing the drama stories and scientific proses instead , who is really has seeks to understanding how/where sz event is beginning regardless his cultural belonging

What is the principle core of schizophrenia change/disorder that has been occurred by the synchronize on the biological level ,psychological,mental,emotional Before producing the behavioral responses ?..what is happening before the personal behavioral responses -outputs

No matter what is sz or what is cause,the question:
what is the launching point(time) of the schizophrenic process ?
When the first spark of the schizophrenic process has starting in the conscious mind/brain ?

Schizophrenic process: the main event that repeats itself periodically and formalize the nerve motor for all changes and disorders-lifelong
For the scientist,it is enough for you to know exactly the accurate details of SINGLE schizophrenic process to know the biography of schizophrenia lifelong ,because the schizophrenia is just a Single Process has repeats itself periodically (between 3-6 seconds) along the waking time everyday for many years

Therefor,do not give any attention to study all diagnostic symptoms to know what is schizophrenia or else ,but you must know the details of single process to explain and understanding all diagnostic symptoms ,if you do that you will Solve all the Questions related schizophrenia

Just know ;Single cause for schizophrenia AND Single process to understanding the biographic of schizophrenia during lifelong !


#30

I belief that,the genetic science is the smartness human sciences.
Whereas,the genetic tests can define the ID of the guilty,thievish and killer by testing single blood drop,single hair or fingerprint track leaved by the guilty being in the venue

But when this science deal with the Sz as a genetic disease under the possibility to makes his testing for 1% of public,all his attempts are fail to define the ID of cause .
This is illogical failure for a smart science ,it must be there is something wrong in the claiming theory

The sz healthy condition is seems to the observers as an Inherited Healthy Condition be acquired suddenly in the first onset of the third decade of life,therefor they have tray to find a causality relationship between this condition and the genetic material/functions from 50 years until now !

What we are trying to say;
the schizophrenia healthy condition(whatever it is) is not a production of genetic factors,psychological or environmental ,and the founder cause of this condition is not a human gene, acquired psychological experiences or by actions of bad environmental conditions

1- the schizophrenia healthy condition is not human inherited condition at all
2- The founder case of Sz condition is External Factor (not environmental in nature or/ classical germ)
3- The cause of sz condition is a new unknown type of causes for our human science
Is that is really hard to understand what we are trying to say ?
You belief that sz is genetic disease,while there is no gene their, what is different if someone sees things that are not their !

First of all ,Treatment the fatal mistakes of causality theories IS necessary task than talking about treatment people with sz


#31

@panoramic20 I wish you would try posting in coherent,intelligible English. You might have something interesting to say but quite frankly it comes over as just so much gibberish.


#32

If the schizophrenia occurs to a speechless person,deaf and blind.
How you can diagnosing the schizophrenia symptoms ?
I wish you would try posting the accuracy rate (if you know-mainly)
Let me see the positive,negative and cognitive symptoms of schizophrenia that you talking about

I think,you will ask the person’s parents ,weather he has schizophrenia or not !


#33

Towards objective and subjective
How we have an actual classification of schizophrenia symptoms ?
at first ,you should supposed that,the schizophrenia case is a separated health condition

  • Sz is not a part from the psychological health condition or biological
    -or assume that,in the person with sz,there are 3 health conditions,the first is the biological healthy condition,the second is the psychological healthy condition ,while the third is a separated non health condition which we call it schizophrenia
    -Sz health condition has independent existence , it is not psychological or/biological in nature or related the human being ,in action it is effects on both the psychological/biological healthy conditions (synchronous) causing all types of changes/disorders (what you call them the symptoms of schizophrenia )
    -the sz health condition is the Effective who is effects on the human healthy conditions (biology/psychology) causing the change /disorder in the natural functions outputs of both

  • Sz health condition in structure/function is like the human self ( the Whole psychological component or/ the thing that you call it the conscious mind or/ conscious brain)

-Then,there are bilateral interaction between the sz health condition and both of the biological/psychological Healthy conditions,and the result of the interactions is all types of changes/disorders features which they Must Be classified as the symptoms of schizophrenia

-The new unexpected fact is that, Any chemical change/disorder is an inevitable result of sz effect ,whereas in reality the chemical change/disorder is a result ( just a reaction) ,and any mode of chemical change is not to be the cause (nerve motor) of all psychological symptoms
(positive,negative and cognitive >>)

All of these means that, the schizophrenia health condition has effects on Both the chemical/mental functions in the same Time causing the change/disorder in both of them (the chemical change/disorder is a result of effect )


#34

Objectivity to treat subjectivity. No. It won’t work…

edit: just read @panoramic20 posts and it’s very interesting, but I can’t understand it fully.


#35

What is the clearness evidence which proof that ; any aspect of chemical change is just a result (reaction),and not to be the causal factor of the mental symptoms
-in the case, if Sz health condition has effect on both of the biological/psychological healthy conditions in the same time
1- after the first onset of sz,and starting the medical intervention
-the medication has seeks to development an improvement in the chemical side of biological brain,but has no effect on the mental and cognitive sides (the conscious side)

  • This means that,the chemical change is not the cause of the changes in the conscious sides
    -there is a positive response to the medication in the chemical side of biological brain,but there is no medical effect or improvement in the conscious side (conscious brain ) !
    -this means that,there is a x-factor has duple effect on both the chemical side and conscious side in the same time,therefor , restoration the balance state for the chemical side of brain does not lead to restoration the balance state of the conscious side

In other words,if there is a chemical disorder causing the mental/cognitive symptoms of sz ,it is supposed that, treatment the disorder by medical intervention and restoration the chemical balance state must be restoration the mental/cognitive state sequence-but that not happen


#36

It makes sense. I hope people listen to you. You have something great to say.


#37

Why there are a differences/contraries between the subjective diagnosing and the objective ?
How does a person with sz identify the existentialism symptoms of schizophrenia inside himself?
How does a person without sz diagnosis the superficial symptoms by his eyes on a person with sz?


#38

It is greet to understand my objective explanation to the sz events as it as without falsification.


#39

To answer all questions about sz correctly through the objective thinking ,you want many real data about the internal logic of sz ( all internal phenomena,processes and events that has been occurring in the biological brain/conscious mind -during the waking time)

You should know the reality of the sz condition itself As the person with sz identify its existentialism manifestations inside himself (without subjective explanation to the data )

For the perception of a person with sz,the sz is not just a symptoms ,but the existentialism manifestations it seem itself for the person’s perception as a new whole living health condition for a strange person (s),a living independent conscious existence not rooted from himself

Simply,the person in the onset of the third decade will feel “suddenly” an emanation/ rebirth of another person (s) in the place-time of his internal world ,and he becomes now feels their existence/characteristics in his internal world beside his feeling to him self (the inherited conscious state)

Launching From the above point,all phenomena,processes and events of sz that you can monitor on the chemical behavior or/ psychological of the person are the result of bilateral interactions between the inherited self and the parasite self (s) -illegitimate self

the internal logic of the bilateral psychological interactions is extremely different / smarter than the internal logic of any medical condition

The parasite self (visitor)has seeks to linking with the structure/functions of the inherited self and has tries to becomes a part form the inherited self (host)
A strange person (s) with you when you are in all time of waking (the period time of the conscious life of the human host) ,it is a condition of forcibly partnership

In normal case,you are alone inside your internal world,be free to manage all your behavior activities according to your self will (there is no partner ),but in sz case you will find antagonist
partner (s) to your self will orientation ,that is whatever the subject you were treated mentally -all time of waking