'Thoughts' or 'Sub-vocalization'

Within the scope of our illness, most have internalized vocalizations as an ongoing troublesome symptom, now what is of immediate interest is what most sufferers currently mistake as ‘thoughts’ as most normal subtle thoughts which the body produces are largely autonomous and silent, like typing this blog or moving my arm around what I am looking at upon the screen.
These everyday functions of what the mind and body are doing whilst performing daily tasks that are almost sub-conscience by their very nature.
So, would they still be classed as ‘thought’ and what would be a vocalized ‘thought’ or inner self talk, what would that voice we interpret as our own whist silent reading to ourselves. Would this be thought of or classed as actual ‘thoughts’ (what would be the defining difference between the two) as most conclude that anything which is bothersome and verbal is a thought or clear sign of psychosis.

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I would think anything apprehended by the brain is a thought. In common speaking if you move your arm without thinking and knock something over it is thoughtless.

What a great post. I am intrigued by such contemplations. I would like to add to these considerations noting that I am an older schizophrenic, so have an advatage in the amount of time I have had to make similar considerations.

It really depends on what field you answer the questions inh. Pyshciatry will relate in trerms on activation potentials and neurophysical regional processes, and their interrelated timing features. Philosophy discussses such questions in huge depth, acro9ss a wide variety of fields, and they would inlcude the nature of conscioussness, awareness and authenticity. Along the lines of “Is it me” and “If It’s not, who can it be” and “who is aware I am considering this central question of self awareness”.

I am sure you are aware that religion attends to these questions in iuts own well known ways.

But I would like to add a personal import to your thinking. In schizophrenia, there are well known ‘errors’ in terms of delusions, regarding “what is a thought” and “what is inner self talk” when a label of schizophrenia is relevant. We are at the behest of professional health care providers, some of whom have the greatest authority above all in our various commiunities. And as such, if they hear your conclusions because you decide to discuss these topics with them, they are compelled to admit you to a ward, if you draw conclusions that don’t agree with their speculations.

If you are schizophrenic, as the website would allow me to assume, then I suggest you write down youyr thinking on this subject, because the very nature of schizophrenic symptomology will mean that these questions about “inner self speech” and “my thoughts” or “not my thoughts” will occupy and preoccupy you for years. And the better, more structured, deeper insight, and clearer your conclusions are on this/ these matters, the better your prognosis will be under a diagnostic label that I have never heard of in terms of “full recovery”. WHatever you decide, conclude and realise, the more you will be confronted with the real life truth that stems from your conclusions. And these conclusions will govern your life.

Good luck. I love your courage, and your honsety in this post.

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For me writing and reading are vocalized thought. singing music in ones head. Only in my case I experience everyone around me “hearing” it. There is sub vocalized thought that is not “heard” but can be gotten to. I don’t know. I am sane. stable. on medication but I woke up to this nightmare several years ago and then spent a year in a hospital. i didn’t tell them any of this as the doctor would just check in with you for a few minutes. They really focused on getting peoples medication right. when I came back i couldn’t even walk out to the road it was so bad. Now I drive again. Hardly ever go out only to go to a convenience store or sometimes the clubhouse for lunch. I read out on the porch or in the hammock and hear “them” comment on what i’m reading.

went to Walmart yesterday with my mother and hadn’t been in a large store in many years. Been dealing with this for longer than I generally think as my memory fades like I’m 80. I avoid busy public places and get by any way I can. I was so shy and withdrawn from the world (but wild sometimes in life) before this and now that’s mainly over but I deal with this thought broadcasting now. I can only tell myself it isn’t real but all I hear is “it’s real”

This was my recovery and it’s ruined. I’m about to move in to my own place again and am thinking of adopting a cat. I have to smoke outside in the smoking area and I smoke every half hour. I’ll be out there experiencing this every, well maybe I’ll go 45 minutes without one. I’ve lived there before so it should be okay but the last time the neighbor sent me to the hospital. I’m a little worried about that. she screamed on the balcony at night and told the police I’d been screaming. no questions asked they took me to the behavior health unit. I was having a few beers with my sister at my kitchen table.

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For you a gift Blue Orchids - Thirst (from Angels are Coming cassette) - YouTube
It’s all in the song.
Thank you for your spot on words.

Thank you for being brave and truthful, I too share some of your experience’s of this strange so called illness, could I be bold enough to ask if you’ve ever heard of group gaslighting, and community mobbing. You may find these explanation’s very insightful.

I have read that most thoughts usually are tacit, in the background and once in a while pops up in a kind of meta thought. That’s usual for everyone. What bothers me it that my own thoughts once in a while (an attack) becomes “loud” and involuntary and of course hostile.

Thanks for the concept of sub-vocalization, I was not aware it was called that.

You can try to google “phenomenology+thoughts” and “Parnas” or “Dan Zahavi” (two philosophers who writes about SZ, thoughts and the mind)

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