The "no supposition" theory of Schizophrenia (only applies to the delusion subgroup)

Schizophrenia is a heterogeneous group, but the biggest subgroup appears to be the delusion one. What starts as a conspiracy theory/crackpot theory eventually ends up in a psychotic episode.

No supposition theory: The normal mechanisms that are at play in the formation of normal delusions (conspiracy theories, crackpot scientist situations, etc) are enough to explain everything, with no need for any suppositions (genetic influence, dysregulation of dopamine due to not working, etc.). The theory has 2 problems:

  1. How do I make the jump from a normal conspiracy theory into a temporary psychotic state, with elevated dopamine levels? - Easy as a piece of cake.

  2. How do I explain the power that such a delusion has right from the beginning, since before entering a psychotic state or while being between episodes? Are normal delusion mechanisms enough to explain this? - Difficult question, maybe yes maybe no

Supposition theory problem: If there is X, Y, Z factor (genetic influence, infection, dysregulation of dopamine, etc) then why isn’t the whole thinking of the person affected equally? Why is it affected only when it comes to the subject of the delusion?

From your experience, what are your thoughts about the second problem of the no-supposition theory? Do you feel that the normal powers at play in delusion formation (self-esteem problems, taking narcissistic supply from the theory, the beginner effect, etc.) are enough to explain the power of the delusion prior to the triggering of a psychotic episode, or do you feel that an extra element might be needed?

I just want to welcome you to the forum. It’s nice to have you here :slight_smile: You’ll find this is a very welcoming community.

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Thanks :smiley:

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I agree a 100%. I ain’t shovin ,nothin up there; colace will have to do.

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I just checked your account and all your posts make no sense, you’re trolling, shame on you.
Next step is to tell moderators to ban you.

@Ninjastar This guy is trolling look at all his posts that don’t make sense and that no one is replying to him. He’s pretending to be a doctor. Waste of internet badwidth.

The step from conspiracy theories and so on only applies to more mundane delusions such as persecutory ones. In those cases, one can argue that there is such a thing as a continuum between odd, irrational beliefs that vary only in degree of conviction from a mundane delusion.

Where such a view has more serious problems is in the class of bizarre delusions, not too long ago a symptom that would place someone straight in the schizophrenia spectrum, excluding other delusional disorders. Delusions of this type include thought insertion and broadcasting, other delusions of control and solipsistic delusions. With these, making the case for an odd, but sub-delusional counterpart is a lot harder to make. What would be an intermediate step between movement experienced as-usual and the idea that someone else controls our limbs?

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Where on earth have I ever pretended to be a doctor? Can you provide a quote? I am the family member of someone who had a schizo-type psychosis episode 5 months ago. Since then, I have been reading non-stop about the problem and am trying to understand what caused it.

If you don’t have SZ, there is a section of the forums specialized for family members of SZ.
We all have mental illness here in this section.

Here you go, go post there:

Consider this delusion: In every split of a second, the world breaks into an infinity of paralele universes where every other possibility that can happen in that split of a second does happen. For example, there is a slight possibility for a brick to fall into my head or for an earthquake to happen while writing this message. In one of those infinity of parallele universes, it did happen a split second ago. It did happen it every split second that passed in the minutes required for me to write this message.

Now this seems like a highly bizzare delusion, and it deffinitely is. A Nobel prize laureate said it’s probably the most crazy idea ever thought in science. You wouldn’t expect a non-psychotic person to believe such an idea without a ton of evidence. Yet, 25% of scientist from the field of physics believe in it, the other 75% believe the other main theory. Stephen Hawkings was in the 25% who believed in this bizzare delusion. The theory itself has zero proof, but neither is it refuted. It’s similar to the idea that a spagette monster created the world, you can’t prove or disprove it.

So why do they believe in it? Because it’s a delusion of support, it supports a bigger theory. In 1930, materialism has been refuted by discoveries in physics. “Everything comes from matter” was proven to be an extremist point of view, similar to the “every mental health problem comes from child sexual molestation” popular during the Freudian period of psychiatry. Yet, materialism was quite a powerful world-view, many scientist found it hard to change their religion from materialism to agnosticism. The many-worlds theory described above is basically a mathematical trick, a support-delusion for materialism.

It’s similar to how the “world was made in 6 days” idea looks strange taken out of context. A random person from a non-christian country would never believe in such an idea. And yet, 35%+ of the population in certain western countries believe in it today. Delusions of support can be very powerful.

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Your post is too complicated for me of us and that’s why you only got one reply.

Since you don’t have MI and its someone in your family, that’s why I suggest you to post there as you will have more and better replies, good luck.

Oy vey, @Aziz, speak for yourself.

Some people replied to the post before you accused the OP of being a troll.

I don’t think anyone else here got that impression.

Welcome to the forum, @Justatheory.

Not everyone here is an ass.

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Delusions are thankfully a well researched and understood topic. It has been well studies by psychology, psychiatry and political studies. Until the 90s, it was presumed to be related to paranoid traits or lower IQ, but that idea was proven wrong. Since then, it has been considered a mechanism for regulating self esteem, and I agree with this official position.

When someone has problems with self esteem, he can solve the problem in a couple of ways. He can fall into conspiracy theories about politics or any other topic. Suddently his importance in the world went from zero to the top. He’s now part of an elite group of smart/enlightened/spiritually advanced/etc. people. The second option is to become a religious extremist. Due to his new radical, unusual, non-mainstream views, he is now part of a small group of people who got it right. A third option is that of the “crackpot scicentist”. Google “crackpot index”. A scientist with low self esteem might fall in love with one of his theories. It provides a ton of narcissistic supply to the person.

All people can fall into conspiracy theories due to the beginner effect, or the “drugger-krugger” effect. If somebody is a noob in a field, he is way more likely to fall into stupid theories. That’s one of the reasons why people tend to develop such theories about politics. Few have real experience in politics, most are beginners but fall to see that their level of competence in the field is much lower than they think.

In order to really fall deep into conspiracy theories, one has to be in a period in life where his self esteem is super low. In my opinion this also explains the age distribution of schizo. It’s difficult to get into such a situation if one has been an engineer/doctor/etc. for 20 years. Even if his whole family dies, that will only lead him into depression, not into problems with self-esteem. But, if somebody just took and failed his medicine exam, he might start believing he is not good enough for the job, he might start being unsure about himself, he might start contemplating that he will only be good for a much lower job, etc. If you add some social pressure on top of this from his parents of friends, the situation will be even worse.

It is this kind of situations that make people prone to conspiracy theories, according to research. Now, imagine the person start to take more and more narcissistic supply from his theories, since it’s the only thing he has. Imagine he starts thinking about it 1 hour/day or worse, he starts fantasising and day-dreaming about him getting a ton of recognition from the world due to being so smart and figuring it out.

The path from this into psychosis is easy. At one point, the conspiracy turns global, turns super important. If someone for example believes he has discovered something important in the field of mental health, he will feel pressured to spread it to the world, to participate in conferences, etc. This is normal. But now imagine that the person goes even further and thinks about his theory non stop for 2 weeks, feeling more and more pressure, feeling that it’s a super important and urgent thing. It is this state of high importance/dopamine that is called psychosis.

When dopamine is at very high levels, every though looks more important, as can be seen through the effects of weed/amphetamine/legal canabiloids and other drugs that increase your dopamine levels. If someone reads an article while stoned, that article will seem much more important and much more convincing than it would do sober. Whatever thought that comes to his mind looks much more important.

The phenomenon of Jerusalim or Paris tourist psychosis looks similar and all cases are identical. Somebody religious plans his trip to Jerusalism for months or even years, thinking it will be a highly important thing for him. After ariving there with dopamine levels being through the roof, he is shocked to find that it’s a normal city like any other, with bad traffic and mcdonalds. At evening, he dresses in the hotel sheet, goes in front of the hotel and starts preaching about how everyone should return to a more simple way of living. All cases are identical, all follow this scenario because those are the first thoughts that come to ones mind after such an experience and that’s where the dopamine gets put.

I fixed it, I honestly can’t understand a single word from his post and we had a troll/scammer this week :slightly_smiling_face:

Are you diagnosed?

Are you taking medications?

@Aziz,

We have trolls a lot, but you can’t just go around accusing new members.

You never know when someone is in psychosis.

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Nope, my GF had a psychotic episode 5 months ago, and this is what led to it. It started as a normal conspiracy theory about artists and politics, nothing out of the normal range. At one point, 1 week before the psychotic break, the theory importance exploded. She found out about many famous artist dying in mysterious circumstances and that made the conspiracy much more important. She then started researching and thinking about her theory all day long and in 1 week ended up in a psychotic state.

She never had conspiracy theories before and does not have schyzotypal traits. On the contrary, I would say she is in the rather rationalist 50% of the population. No childhood trauma, no other factors either. The only thing about her was the severely low self esteem she was experiencing at the moment due to life circumstances + social isolation + small weed consumption.

The high-dopamine, psychotic state lasted for only around 3 weeks. But still, she maintains her original delusions that, in short, claim she is super special and important, like any other conspiracy theory. The only mechanism that maintain her delusions at the moment are the normal mechanisms that are at work in any belief/delusion. Her dopamine has been back to normal after those 3 weeks, so her thinking outside of the delusional topic is not affected.

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I’d like to encourage you to join our forum for Family and Caregivers that can be found at:

While this is a peer support forum for people with schizophrenia and other closely related psychotic disorders, the Family forum is specifically for people like yourself, who have a loved one they are concerned about.

Also, please let your loved one know about this forum as they may find it helpful.

Best of luck,

Ninjastar
Volunteer Moderator

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