Sz & the Consensus Trance

"Each of us is born into a culture, a group of people with a shared belief system, a consensus about how things are and how they ought to be. As soon as we are born, the culture, primarily through the agency of the parents, begins to pick and choose among our potentials. Some are considered good and are actively encouraged…

"Becoming ‘normal,’ becoming a full-fledged member of your culture, involves a selective shaping, a development of approved (‘natural,’ ‘godly,’ ‘polite,’ ‘civil’) potentials, an inhibition of disapproved (‘evil,’ ‘criminal,’ ‘delinquent,’ ‘disrespectful’) ones…

"Cultures almost never encourage their members to question them. Physical survival has been too precarious for too many people for most of our history, so there is a deep, if implicit, feeling that our culture has kept us alive in a rough world; don’t ask questions, don’t rock the boat…

"Consensus trance induction is a process of shaping the behavior and the consciousness of the baby, the subject, to be ‘normal,’ to ensure that there is a high level of standardization of behavior and consciousness in all people so they fit social norms [even if those social norms are as extremely distorted and/or dysfunctional as they often are in many schizophrenics’ demented, alcoholic, substance abusing, depressed, anxious, manic, self-absorbed, narcissistic, fretting neurotic, delusionally psychotic, covert game-playing or otherwise dysfunctional families of origin].

Can anyone here see where the delusions and wild ideas come from?

Above from Charles Tart, Ph.D.: Consensus Trance: The Sleep of Everyday Life, at


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My thoughts are you are a self-aggrandizing jerk who leverages his knowledge to intimidate people here.

Some people put there head in the sand and some put there head in the clouds. At some point there going to have to face the music though.

There are healthy and unhealthy beliefs everywhere. It’s up to the individual to make sense of it all through there own trial and errors.
I was taught to question everything from a young age.


My family members are atheists, and my delusions were religious ones. So, for me there is no correlation to those two issues. My family issues are one thing, my illness is another. If my father behaviour traumatized me, it probably did but not to the point of “causing” my delusions. My mothers behaviour also did a number on me but it wasn’t traumatizing enough. Both combined, probably my fears have more to to with that than my illness.

So, my comment is this: of course there is a “normal” standard that which you look into and there’s nothing normal about it, just a bunch of people trying homogenize the rest of us. We szs are not different human beings, we are normal human beings with a brain disease.


I used to have the delusion I was African American. It was a legit delusion though. I spent my childhood pretending to be African American on the Internet as a way of escaping reality. And then even when I starting listening to rock music and embracing white culture I still thought I was black. I’ve still had people say “there’s a little bit of brother in you”. Not easy having mi

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“…It is thus not lack of cleanliness or health that causes abjection but what disturbs identity, system, order. What does not respect borders, positions, rules. The in-between, the ambiguous, the composite. The traitor, the liar, the criminal with a good con-science, the shameless rapist, the killer who claims he is a savior. . . .
Any crime, because it draws attention to the frag-ility of the law, is abject, but premeditated crime, cunning murder, hypocritical revenge are even more so because they heighten the display of such fragility. He who denies morality is not abject; there can be grandeur in amorality and even in crime that flaunts its disrespect for the law—rebellious, liberating, and suicidal crime. Abjection, on the other hand, is im-moral, sinister, scheming, and shady: a terror that dissembles,a hatred that smiles, a passion that uses the body for barter instead of inflaming it, a debtor who sells you up, a friend who stabs you.”. .
Julia Kristeva, The Powers of Horror

I think this should stand here. Just a note to ones who find themselves outside of the fence…
As well as for the ones who remain behind it.
As well as for those who stand at the fence. :slight_smile:

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The consensus trance is great, to me it is the antidote to delusion.

I think I was more influenced by a counter culture…

What exactly intimidates you?

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Whew. (Pieces. Players. Passersby. :kissing_heart: )

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I’m never going to be normal. Ever. I’ve settled on being useful. It’s a workable compromise.



Works for me (so long as I have no expectations) (i.e. resentments in training).

Well, if by “normal” you mean teaching your kids good character, then yes, mine are in this trance.

Had to give those up. Costliest hobby a person can have. Resentments are not compatible with:

Good. Orderly. Direction.

My wife asked me how I felt last night about driving a fuel truck because it’s quite a change from being trained as a network engineer. I’m actually cool with it. You get tired of running on the information technology treadmill. Constant upgrading and certification exams. I get to leave the job behind at the end of the day and spend time with my family. That’s cool.

I don’t always get what I want, but I occasionally get what I need.




Do you think it’s possible to teach them GC outside the “box” or the CT?

Life on life’s terms. Very, very difficult for those doing recovery with “half measures,” but the Big Reward of “acceptance.”

I’m not sure my daughter realizes her potential as are most of our young women today. Thinking outside the box is something she counts on me for and adopting it would be too much like me. I will say this she’s fiercely independent.

If I continue to live outside the usual conformity, I might end up to akward to fit in, I just realize. I just value personal space and freedom the same that other people value safety and predictability.