What is support? Is it just being there for someone, understanding them, and telling them it’s ok regardless of what’s going on?
What about when people need hard truth? How often do we see people on this forum posting about the bad decisions they make? Going off meds, taking street drugs, posting obviously delusional messages, etc. Should we be silent or should we tell them that they’re wrong?
I know nobody wants to be argumentative or to offend, but I think there is a need here to push for recovery. I think we should speak up when we see people making bad decisions or being delusional. If we don’t speak up, are we really helping anyone?
I do agree… on other forums I’ve seen some pretty blunt and crass meanness.
There is a difference between telling someone stuff like… “Hey, that’s not an idea that ever turned out well”… and “please rethink that” or even… “you might want to talk to your doc and get some new ideas”
and
“That’s stupid” or “what are you thinking dummy” and stuff like that.
There is a way to disagree without being blunt and mean about it.
I just can’t help but think of my friend jcal here…he is completely and utterly convinced regardless of taking medication, that his delusions are real. In his case I’ve found that you could try to dissuade him of believing in the reality of his delusions until the cows came home but it would be a waste of time. I’ve found that it’s best to offer my support in other ways and let him be his crazy self that everyone seems to like anyway.
I do however agree that support is not always that which the supported would like to see at the moment.
I agree with that but what I mean in general is that it’s so easy to just ignore certain posts or threads instead of providing reality-based feedback. There are a lot of people here that are doing well, we should make a concerted effort to let other people know when they’re wrong or doing something that, from our experience, isn’t helpful.
sometimes ppl need to find the truth for themselves, you cant just say ive done this and that and this has happened because theyre either not goin to believe it or they goin to say that wont happen to me. sometimes you cant help, unless your willing to see things the way they are and get on there level and page of whatever book they may be on. take me for example i want to go off my meds, alot of you would say not to but i like it because it reminds me that i am crazy sometimes even though i believe im fine. or there may be other reasons for it. like i see truth in it. and there is no way for you to say otherwise because i know that it is true. but the best chance you have is being write there with them on the same page and showing them that you know what they mean instead of saying “yeah i know what you mean” go into detail of how you were in the same place, instead of being short and blunt be long and descriptive. that way they can better relate to you. then youll have a fighting chance.
There are shades of delusion. While one might be completely absorbed and unreachable another might be struggling with reality and our words of truth might be what’s needed to help them back from the brink.
Went I was at my worst I really needed a place to vent about my experiences and I couldn’t do so without coming off as delusion. So I kind of have mixed feelings on the subject. I will say I’m put off by some of the more delusional things I read here. It is always my choice to ignore what I don’t like. Maybe it would have helped me to have some harsh feedback maybe it would have made me distrust this place. It took me a long time to learn and hold the belief with confidence that no one is telepathic. I’m still working on eliminating the symptom. So case by case I guess. Maybe more people could be outspoken. I do agree though this place should be about recovery but I do find it entertaining to hear what others are going through. I don’t think we should all just be pretending to be normal treating schizophrenia coldly like it’s just a disease. It’s a condition that some people live with their whole life. I guess I like the forums the way they are.
So you go against the view of many but not all psychiatrists that delusions imply complete lack of insight( I’m not saying you’re wrong).
In my experience I’ve had weird thoughts(a euphemism for delusions perhaps) that I’ve been able to question and reality test but they’ve still been hard to shake off. There was some insight there though.
For years I believed firmly that delusion was on or off. Lately I’ve had somewhat of a change of mind. I did a little reading, something I generally avoid, and that, coupled with what I’ve seen, makes it appear that delusional thoughts aren’t strictly on or off, or at least not always of long duration.
People, particularly when they’re struggling, going through med changes, and such can believe one thing one moment, and then disbelieve the next. I hope sound advice, when catching them at the right time, would help.
i don’t think it’s always any one thing, pat on the back or otherwise. just as there’s variety in ailment so too there is variety in reaching through it. i personally have benefited most, especially when i am least well, from the “l.e.a.p.” approach. being “called to task” or tried forced to admit consensus reality=truth just alienates further. there are things my care team thinks i lack insight on even now when i’m pretty ok i think especially as not inpatient, but we can agree on setting this or that aside for now to deal with taking meds and showers and leaving the house, all of which are often in direct conflict with my so called “delusions”.
i think it’s more important to consider the person than to have a one size fits all approach is my point and there are concessions on both sides. i agree the voices and the walls are “hallucinations” but i disagree as to the cause because i know what i’ve experienced. whether there are neurotechnological implants, debating is to me like debating whether someone has been traumatised, you just hear not argue and that (in the past has, under force fed approaches) wastes a lot of time with my care team and it’s time better spent figuring out how to work with the things we do agree on. like, digging stuff out lands me in the hospital so how do we avoid that? eating regularly is good, how do we make that happen? showers are going to be better than not, medication can protect me from thought manipulation, etc.
unsure that example is the best one, but it’s a big one for me and it just seems like pushing consensus reality CAN be the most helpful to some as reminder, but can also make a sticking point of exclusion and not everyone is reached the same way, but i do think we all can be reached if we aren’t too hung up on precisely how that’s done, including maybe a pat on the back–it doesn’t have to be one approach fits all. hope that makes sense. it’s pre dawn here, so it should, but one never knows. i do think it’s a good topic. cheers for reading.
I think the biggest thing here is to be gentle. Yes, we should talk to people, but, if several people are jumping in at once, it could be overwhelming.
What we could do is develop a “help” team made up of general users that volunteer. These people could be there to coordinate and send personal messages to users that make posts about delusions or even just posts about struggles! These personal messages would be to support and encourage healthy ideas and lifestyles.
Some here, like myself, are undergoing psychic-like experiences.
I don’t want to offer to much of my own ideas in the instant they might upset someone
But I find you can’t take someone just half way - You usually have to explain a bit more of your experiences
and ideas to give the more positive outlook on what is often times pretty terrifying if you’re not familiar with the idiosyncrasies.
As for further damaging themselves - I’m not exactly sure what more that we can say other than ‘Drugs are bad.’ It seems pretty obvious that they affect the mind therefor making the situation worse.
I’m not entirely sure about marijuana however. I could see that possibly being of some aid if used in minimal amounts.
I agree with you Malvok.
My understanding says that truth is what you believe and perceive from your knowledge and understanding. A person’s view about another person may not be a truth for the person. It gets even harder when a person is delusional and constantly seeing the things which you cannot relate to.
We definitely should not be silent but we shouldn’t be rude as well
. A sufferer knows what s/he is going through. If we cannot lessen the pain, we shouldn’t make it worse.
Sometimes support is just listening to the person and not letting him/her fall in despair.
I am usually very direct with others, but I try not to be in your face or rude - I am careful not to offend those that may be delusional or are clouded with their symptoms - I mean you can disagree with others without coming across as offensive or rude (this is not directed at anyone specific)