Schizophrenia.com

Do Antipsychotics Worsen Long-term Schizophrenia Outcomes? Martin Harrow Explores the Question


#1

I’m posting this again as it is too important, and yet never mentioned in the forum.

Robert Whitaker
March 26, 2013

Martin Harrow and Thomas Jobe have a new article coming out in Schizophrenia Bulletin that I wish would be read by everyone in our society with an interest in mental health. Harrow and Jobe, who conducted the best study of long-term schizophrenia outcomes that has ever been done, do not present new data in this article, but rather discuss the central question raised by their research: Does long-term treatment of schizophrenia with antipsychotic medications facilitate recovery? Or does it hinder it?


#2

Interesting. I will wait to see what happens with further, similar, research.


#3

Hi nick, if I told u, the damage sz has done to u is reversible, and u can be ap free for the rest of your life, would u like to listen?


#4

Sure. Yes…


#5

Read my post on halogens, iodine, bromine, fluorine and chlorine. It can change your life.

Actually most of my other posts are about this. I want u to know. There are a lot of new brain disorders and exploding numbers of tones of disease. I’m wondering it is related to our heavy use of bromine and fluorine instead of iodine.


#6

OK, goggles, thanks.


#7

I read your post on bromine. That’s interesting too.


#8

Keep on going! :blush:my precious friend!


#9

I think it is too early to draw definitive conclusions based on limited papers questioning the long term use of antipsychotics.

As Insel says :

It appears that what we currently call “schizophrenia” may comprise disorders with quite different trajectories. For some people, remaining on medication long-term might impede a full return to wellness. For others, discontinuing medication can be disastrous. For all, we need to realize that reducing the so-called “positive symptoms” (hallucinations and delusions) may be necessary, but is rarely sufficient for a return to normal functioning. Neither first nor second generation antipsychotic medications do much to help with the so-called negative symptoms (lack of feeling, lack of motivation) or the problems with attention and judgment that may be major barriers to leading a productive, healthy life.

I don’t think one can make blanket statements as to whether long term antipsychotics are bad for the individual but i think many here would agree with Insel’s comment about negative symptoms.
I would further add that for some, possibly, antipsychotics exacerbate negative symptoms.


#10

Has this study been repeated with the same results? That’s how things gain acceptance. Someone tries A and gets B. A whole ton of other people try A and get B. Then it becomes more accepted. However if one and only one person tries A and gets B there is no way to know if the other 99+ people who try A will get B instead of C.
If you ask me, one study proves nothing.
They did a study that showed that babies who listened to classical music in the womb had higher IQs than other babies who did not. But the study could not be replicated so it has generally been dismissed by researchers.
“Conventional wisdom” has stopped me from hearing gunshots at my school. The same wisdom has stopped me from wanting to hang myself every other day. If I have to sacrifice tomorrow’s sanity for today’s I will do it. There is no guarantee that I will be alive tomorrow. But there is a guarantee that I am alive today.


#11

Actually, this is not a summary of ONE research. Martin Harrow and Thomas Jobe have been doing researches on this topic. I might find you more link tomorrow. And I would like to draw you attention to that [quote=“goggles, post:1, topic:6106”]
they note, other longitudinal studies have “found similar results.” They cite studies by Courtney Harding, the Chestnut Lodge study, the Alberta Hospital Studies in Canada, and those of M. Bleuler in Europe.
[/quote]

and [quote=“goggles, post:1, topic:6106”]
Finally, Harrow and Jobe note that in the studies by the World Health Organization,researchers “found better outcomes in many developing countries where only a small percentage of schizophrenia patients were treated with antipsychotics.”
[/quote]


#12

http://www.sangath.com/images/file/Is%20the%20outcome%20of%20schizophrenia%20really%20better%20in%20developing%20countries...pdf

http://www.schizophrenia.com/sznews/archives/005676.html


#13

One of my experience, my first medication was 1mg of risperdal for a week and than raised to 2 mg. thats how they started me on risperdal. I was doing good, but still the pdoc increased to 3mg. Thinking 2 mg for schizophrenia is not enough, but i wasn’t taking 3. I was splitting in half. Basically i was taking 1.50mg and i was drinking heavy, alcohol reduce the dose as well. Couple of years splitting and drinking, one day i told my pdoc that i am splitting the 3mg. She told me that its dangerously low and convinced me to take at least 2mg. So i agree with her, i continuously taking 2mg and drinking alcohol every single day without going into psychosis for 6 years. In 2012 i was under heavy stress i was in a fight with a guy every day ( verbal fight) i went into psychosis…my pdoc increased to 3mg. . After that i haven’t been drinking at all. After a year of taking 3mg i reduced to 2mg. now when ever i reduce my med to 1.50mg within a week i go into depression. I never had the depression issue wile i was taking 1.50 during the start of my med. the med altered my brain chemistry. Now i am taking 1.75 and doing fine. Slowly i will reduce below 1.75 once i balance my neurotransmitter levels with supplements.


#14

they shoulnt put people on them in the first place imo.


#15

So what to do?
Googlesdo you know anyone else with your results?
I guess everyone would have to make their own decision. If my son went off his meds, I would be terrified. What else is there? It seems like neuroscience should be able to come up with something by now. I know that the things we injest cause all kinds of diseases. Cancer is a man-made disease. SZ can start in the womb now? But why don`t my other kids have it? Stress is a factor? Stress is in the air—you can buy it or not, like everything else in this world. Not trying to be negative.
I think everything is a complete individual journey-and you have to let that individual figure it out, even while being white knuckled at watching, or the one going through it.
Sorry, I am tired of trying to figure it all out and thinking so hard…X


#16

I agree @dandydinmot.

I think it is an ethical issue.


#17

You said:
Sz can start in the womb now ?

=Mainly,if the doctors can not diagnosis the schizophrenia for someone in the LAB before the onset of sz or during the occurrence of sz or after the individual have sz
the question:
for what reason you belief that sz can start in the womb ?

what is the actual way to diagnosis the sz ?
notice the changes that has been occurred in the thoughts ,language and behavior,
wherever no one can depend on any types of anatomical changes to diagnosis the sz
then,
if you supposed that,there are anatomical changes in the womb,why the doctors are
unable to diagnosis these changes in the early childhood stage,adulthood stage,or after
the adulthood stage-or in any period time ?

Simply;
if you claim that ,you can see some specific anatomical changes{stable} in the womb,it is supposed that
you can see these changes in the early childhood and adulthood stages or in any time,and this means that you can diagnosis the sz in the lab before its occurrence or during its occurrence or after its occurrence or any time of life !

there is a difference between the “words” and the “actual events”


#18

There are a lot to do!

orthoiodosupplementation / the nutrients - natural therapy approach has a lot of supporters.

they are not only working for people with mental disorders. they work for anyone who has weird health condition that no one can help them. MD only ask them to add more antipsychotics and say they have a problem in the head,

it is actually a very hot topic right now.

I find a lot of report people find orthoiodosupplementation works like magic. Some say it changes their life. Some say it’s the best decision they have ever made in life. There are loads of patients with experience similar to us. some of they have got a psychotic break some don’t.

I’m posting some more formal reports here again. Abraham Hoffer’s has been working on similar issue. He used vitamin C, vitamin bs, some minerals, and natural dessicated hormone in treating people with sz with good results. You will find some figures in the report. But his approach isn’t perfected.

http://orthomolecular.org/library/jom/2001/articles/2001-v16n04-p205.shtml

Actually, there are reports posted by the psychiatrists in their formal address, patient with sz are treated and get back to health with the use of natural dessicated hormone. and then they say this is a mis-diagnosis of thyroid disorder. But it is very nice that they also say sz patient without thyroid disorder observed also get cured when they are put on natural dessicated hormone. They say it isn’t their problems psychiatric patients get treated with natural dessicated hormone but the endocrinologist won’t. And even if they do, they put you on synthetic hormones. That is not going to help you and me either.

http://www.thyroid.ca/e10f.php#null
http://schizophrenia.com/sznews/archives/004348.html

Iodine is essential for a lot of function in the body. it works for us via thyroid (the most famous theraupetic use of iodine in the body) so some people begin to think they have a thyroid problem.

As of indepedent patient view, there are loads of reports from the internet people writing out their experiences on the use of iodine and natural dessicated hormone. It treats a lot of people who have, depression, chronic fatique, all kinds of mental disorders, thyroid problems that no MD would agree they have, chest pain / anigna, cancer, etc. And it works fast. It alleviates the memory problems, attention problems, and brain fog in a lot of patients. It helps people to get back their energy level among some other things.

There is a book a patient who experienced all these and wrote it out. She have a pile of case interviews you might be interested to take a look, “Iodine Crisis”

I would say, read up and help youself understand what is helping. I have been posting about this issue. You will find a lot of useful articles and books and Doctors and labs in my link.

Get yourself prepared and then find a good doctor who knows about iodine. You better get your loved one checked on his iodine / bromine / fluorine level. Also check for magnesium, if possible. You might also check for hormonal levels. That’s for now.

It seems that holistic / naturapathy doctors knows more about these.

It is about recovering your body’s functioning with nutrients. I’m afraid you and I don’t need more drugs or synthetics in anyway to interfere our body functioning.


#19

We can summarize this lengthy study as follows:
IF SZ IS a GENETIC DISEASE {biochemical disorder in root origin}.
the questions
1-What is happen if we have conducted certain medical actions on some
individuals have sz?
-some schizophrenic individuals will be take antipsychotics drugs for long time

2-what is happen if we have NOT conducted these medical measures over
other individuals have sz too ?
some schizophrenic individuals do not take antipsychotics for the same long time

  • if the sz is merely a genetic disease" like diabetes", { theoretically} what is the expected results in the above cases ? *

#20

Hi @bridgecomet

Did u read an article I posted on time trends in schizophrenia?

There is certain time in history, around 1970-1985, cases of sz in different countries go up by 50-70%, while cases of sz in other countries could cut down on similar figures. I’m skipping the technical. It is a discussion of a group of studies. The author suggest the role of “change in diet” and “industrialization” in contributing to cases of sz.

I think the research also points to some individual factors. Of course there are variables in the individual which contributes to the disease. Nutrients affects your level of bodily functioning in the liver’s detoxification and removal of chemical. Nutrients also affects your hormonal level, which relates to your body’s self repairment.

Your children are not borned with the same level of vital nutrients in the womb. You have less iodine and more bromine in your body overtime, for example. There are study mother has different levels of EPA overtime and it contributes to a different in the new borns too. And you have less thyroid hormone at certain time in life, which contribute to underdevelopment of certain glands in some of your children.

I have read a little bit about the genetic study. I have posted about MTHFR and elevated homocylesine level. It is about our bodies production of enzyme, which turn vital nutrients into their useful form. It’s about metabolism of folic acid and vitamin b12. I am aware that there are other gene candidate on schizophrenia, so far I know they are about the enzyme which helps us in some biological process in the body. So, I’m describing to you, another individual factors contributing to schizophrenia. This time it is about digestion and utilization of nutrients, which explain why your children eat the same bowl of spinach and one of them don’t get the benefit.

You children are not exposed to the same amount of toxins in their environment too. There is a report a woman caught severe health problems after she bought a new car. She is on iodine now and find out it is the bromine in the new car that caused her iodine level drops to zero.