Am I the one being intolerant?

Lounge
1

(I don’t mean to offend anyone with this post, and it’s not directed nor targeting towards anyone here)

I had a discussion with a friend on Facebook today. She had linked an article where a newspaper was debating or sharing their views on something a Norwegian celebrity who was gay had said about gays who were flamboyant and in-your-face.
He had said that it annoyed him that that was all the world saw on tv, and that people were expecting him to be the same way. He’d also said that there were plenty of “normal” gays who had no need to be in-your-face about their sexuality.

In the article, they wrote that they thought this was wrong of him to say, and they said between the lines that anyone who didn’t feel a need to be in-your-face and flamboyantly gay weren’t comfortable enough with their own sexuality, and that the world needs people like those kinds of gays.

I commented on the piece, saying that I felt the article was a bit biased, and that I felt like young lgbt’ers needed to know that they didn’t have to be flamboyant in order to be a “real” gay. A lot of people seem to think that being gay means they have to act a certain way, and I don’t like that. I think it’s important for people to know that you can be gay and still be a regular person.

I also said that it sometimes seems fake, and that it annoys me when people act too flamboyantly because it seems like they’re trying to overcompensate for maybe not being as comfortable about their sexuality as they want people to think.

She got visibly annoyed and told me it was wrong of me to say that people who were too in-your-face weren’t comfortable in their sexuality.

I then said that I didn’t mind a bit of flamboyancy, but that there has to be some middle ground. Y’know, that they don’t have to overdo it, and that people who were comfortable with their sexuality didn’t need to cry for attention like some seem to do.

Her only comment was
"We genuienly disagree".

I just liked her comment and moved on, but I can feel it nagging at me. I didn’t mean to upset her, and I don’t want to start a fight by trying to talk to her about it again.

Am I being bigoted? I stand by my opinion, even though it seems to be an unpopular one with the other LGBT’ers.

I guess what I’m asking is, will someone please tell me if others feel this way too, and maybe reassure me that I’m not a complete ass?

1 Like
2

I had a gay friend who didn’t act like the stereotypical flamboyant gay guy at all. I didn’t really think anything about his sexuality until the girl I was dating at the time pointed it out to me.
I’m not sure why any gay person or anyone else for that matter would make an attempt to dictate how a person should act based on something like that. Or why they would make a conscious effort to act a certain way if it was just a pose.
It seems to me that a person’s mannerisms doesn’t come down to anything except whatever they happen to be naturally, when they are simply being themselves.
I wouldn’t worry about it.

3

I don’t know, I mean, it seems to me like especially people who are new at being openly gay act more flamboyantly. I think it’s because they see all these flamboyant gays on TV and think that that’s how they have to be.

I don’t think they put in a concious effort to act that way, but I’m sure it affects their behaviour subconciously.

4 Likes
4

Some guy commented on my comment on Facebook, and it re-opened the discussion.
My friend just seems to get more and more riled up, and she keeps misunderstanding what I’m trying to say.

I’m not trying to say people should keep quiet about their sexuality or be ashamed of who they are, I’m simply trying to state that there is way more to a person than just their sexuality, and I wish people would display more of that instead of making their gender preference their whole identity.

1 Like
5

I think you explained yourself perfectly well and have nothing to worry about. In fact I quite agree with what you said. Don’t worry yourself over this.

2 Likes
6

I am bisexual and I have been both kind of flamboyant about my sexuality and gender neutral with my sexuality so, I can speak on this subject. I think that it is important for LGBT people to have a choice as to whether they want to express their sexuality in a “flamboyant” way or not. Sometimes we can go back and forth with this depending on who we are with relationship wise. In other words, if we are with a femme woman, we act more butch, if we are with a butch woman, we act more femme. And, we can change in our perspectives over time, in other words, we can be very femme in our youth and androgynous or butch in our older years. That’s just been my experience of people I’ve known in this life. I’m speaking as a woman, of course.

7

The real issue here is that almost all gay characters on TV and in movies are very flamboyant and effeminate. The real issue is that people expect that of gay people and think gay people who aren’t that way are forcing themselves to act like someone they’re not. Which is exactly what you said that article insinuated. And why do we even have to discuss whether or not some people overdo their mannerisms? I’m sure many do. I’m sure many people try to hide them, too. That’s not the issue. The issue is that gay people are being portrayed in a highly stereotypical way that is not representative of how most gay people are. I think your friend should stop using strawman arguments and reconsider her fight to protect oppressive stereotypes.

6 Likes
8

I learned in college, in Sociology 101, that stereotypes are generally true. They are not individually true, because there are always individual exceptions. But, they are generally true.

9

Many have an element of truth in them, but most are very exaggerated. There is a big difference here. And the same goes for the stereotype about gay men being flamboyant. Half the gay men I’ve met in my life are about as effeminate as your average straight guy. The other half usually have a few effeminate qualities, but not nearly as many or strong as your average gay character on TV.

Stereotypes are usually selectively more negative and more extreme (in-group-out-group bias and out-group homogeneity effect) than reality. This often makes them oppressive. Like the stereotype about women being dumber than men, which thankfully is getting less and less popular because people have spoken out against it.

3 Likes
10

I never watch T.V. so that, I wouldn’t know. T.V. is offensive to me. I feel that T.V. is derogatory towards women so, I don’t watch it at all.

1 Like
11

And, women are proving it to be untrue.

12

I’m not sure what you are trying to say here. My point is that if no one speaks out against false stereotypes, they are very difficult to change. If women were consistently portrayed as stupid on TV and in movies today, it would be a lot harder to get a good education and a good job as a woman.

3 Likes
13

I messages her, saying I was sorry because I could see I had offended her, and that it was in no way meant as an attack on her or her personality.
I also asked if she was ok, and I told her I had been left with some negative emotions.

I don’t know what I was hoping for. Maybe an “It’s okay” or some sort of validation, even though I hate it when people ask for validation.

She just gave me an annoyed reply about it being hard not to take it personal when I’d basically said I disliked her kind of person, and that she’s sad and likes me less now.

I can’t please some people :confused:
Now I feel sad.

I didn’t want her to feel attacked, and I didn’t mean to poke her where it hurt.

2 Likes
14

Facebook is just not a good platform for debate. People tend to forget there are real people at the other end of the keyboard, and lash out far more than they would in person. If you have a chance to see this friend in person, I bet she will be much more receptive of your words and less hostile.

I have had to learn to just mute all my friends who regularly post inflammatory articles and comments. Trying to have a reasonable debate with someone on Facebook is fruitless.

3 Likes
15

She’s usually quite reasonable, even though she can be kind of a Social Justice Warrior.

She won’t accept my apology no matter what I say, it seems. She just said that it doesn’t matter that I didn’t mean to offend her when I did in fact offend her.

I think I’ll just stop replying her for now. She doesn’t seem to want to talk to me anyways at this point.

I wish I was able to see her in person. Maybe then I could offer to buy her a cup of coffee a few days later, when the dust has settled, and we could talk it out :confused:

2 Likes
16

I believe the crux of this debate is the traditional understanding of masculinity within the gay community.

Polls show that 50-70% of gay men believe that femme gay men are unacceptable and give all gay men a bad image or reputation.

The most practical way to address this issue is for gay men to acknowledge the self-loathing and insecurity toward femme gay men within the gay community as it relates to a traditional understanding of masculinity.

2 Likes
17

I completely agree that this is a problem. We shouldn’t criticize femme gay men for being themselves. We should just criticize the entertainment industry for propagating false stereotypes. I think this anger towards femme gay men comes from the extremely skewed representation of gay men in the media. Let everyone be who they are, and let people see us for who we really are, not just compare us to the stereotypical idea of a gay man.

3 Likes
18

This topic was automatically closed 14 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.