Word salad?

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I have been trying to get a better understanding of this.

http://www.alleydog.com/glossary/definition.php?term=Word%20Salad%20(verbal%20salad)

The above link seems to be the best description I have found although I question the idea that certain words don’t have meaning.

I think that my son is currently experiencing this. I’m afraid this last break appears to be the worst one yet and has taken a toll on his cognition. Some examples:

He asked me Saturday if I was his limbo… It appears he was trying to ask me if I was like his left arm.

He is finding it hard to figure out how to look at me in terms of being his agency… or someone who looks out for his interests.

Yesterday he asked me to be his elder.

Last night he asked about outer wear when referring to winter clothing.

Is this word salad, a cognition hit or both?

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My break took a terrible tole on my cognition. I wasn’t really steered towards educating myself more though other than my dad wanted me to go to college. I wrote every day until I began making more sense. I still miss certain words.

It’s like taking a picture of something or a thought and inventing your own explanation for it. I sometimes have trouble explaining what I think, even though I can picture it I don’t know how to say it. I think it’s harder for people with schizophrenia to be verbal, but a lot of people with autism and schizophrenia have photographic memories.

My mom does this. She’ll start ranting about something unrelated to her reason for ranting, as if trying to put reason to something that’s illogical. I think people with this illness should get free education for coping. Verbal and visual skills are IMO the solution to this illness. Education pretty much solves most negative and positive symptoms alongside medication and financial support, motivational support and talking.

Learning how to shift our self-expression. Also, non-attachment. Taking time to let go and be ok with a blank canvas or empty rice bowl, letting yourself realize that thoughts are thoughts. We don’t need to hang onto words or thoughts, we need to slow down and start putting ourselves into good environments and spaces.

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my problems with formal thought disorder take a number of forms and i wouldn’t say that when i’m “word salad” it’s quite like what you describe. mine is more…far more jumbled, i guess. it goes from “clanging” to just …it’s meaningful TO ME, but i’ve looked at things i’ve written in journals and it isn’t coherent at all. it’s more like gibberish without syntax.

when it starts happening (problems with formal thought disorder) though, for me it’s not like, BOOM! sudden incoherence. it slips to that point. so it’s hard to say where he is on that slope, if that makes sense.

but then there are other variations that sound more like you describe.

i would say he has more loose associations than word salad at this point, from what you describe. that’s what i’m said to have when i’m more like that. he might be doing word approximations…but then…how is outerwear not winter clothing? i don’t know…that makes sense to me.

the cognition thing, i don’t understand your question, i think. i mean, psychosis is supposedly a cognition hit, but then having formal thought disorder problems can be aided by meds for some, for me it is a great deal, but then, i guess some things remain because i don’t see what’s all that odd about a couple of the examples you gave.

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I’m so sorry he had this happen.

I’ve been having this creep up on me lately too…

I’ll try my best… Mine used to happen from two things…

If I was sort of hyper manic… my word salad kicked in because my head was spinning so fast, and I couldn’t keep my head on a topic long enough to even finish a sentence. This is also when I get the clang association. I guess this would be when I was in a positive swing. I also didn’t really notice then that I was in word salad due to being so hyper.

Recently my word salad kicked in because I’ve been loosing a grip on my cognitive skills. I’ve been forget words and my brain is trying to find a word… any word and it’s not always the right word. I feel like I’m speaking and thinking so slowly this past week.

Combined with how detached I’ve been feeling, I’m afraid I’m hitting a negative patch.

I hope your son feels better soon. Don’t give up hope, the brain can heal and little by little l hope his cognitive comes back.

Wishing the best for you and him.

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Sorry to hear @SurprisedJ that you are going through a tough patch and struggling lately. It may not seem like it however the fact that you are able to recognize it is a good thing. I have every faith in your ability to learn how to cope with this. :purple_heart:

Maybe this does explain it more appropriately. However I question that what would appear to be word salad from the outside looking in would be loose associations in reality. If not thinking outside the box so to speak and looking at the meanings of words without context then the association could be missed.

Another example: He was tapping parts of the plane and I asked him why? He said he was testing the bandwidth of the carriage. Now that may appear to be word salad as the words don’t seem to fit together. I asked him if he was testing the density of the airplane or how hard it was and he said yes.

Sorry if I’m confusing this further…

I’m worried about his cognition as well. He asked for help on how to put on his toque last night. I don’t think he knew how…

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Sometimes in conversation I have difficulty picking words out of my head. I “forget” the word I’m looking for.

I don’t have that difficulty when writing, though. I think it has more to do with social interaction than cognitive decline, though.

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i hear you and it’s hard for me because i think i can see the connections differently. like, density and hardness …i can see why he answered “yes”. i also can see why certain substitutions happen.

with the how to determine not word salad/appearing from outside versus inside a context… i think from my vantage point i can see a distinction in myself. no matter how “loose”, when i re read things, i understand myself to a point. they might not be the conventional words or they might be used in a way that has a pattern, but there’s a pattern and a possible meaning still. and i’m seeing that with the examples you’re giving. but then when it’s full on, for me, the only patterns go from sounds, rhymes, i guess, to that they’re all whole words. even i can’t really pinpoint what i was on about. i can find here and there some snippet, but overall, i’d be confusing to anyone, including myself.

does that make more sense? it’s not just that i use phrases or rhyming patterns or mix up words…it’s more like there’s no structure either.

but i’m sure that people express these difficulties differently. is he seeing a therapist or just on meds?

i will say this: i get TOUCHY about having my difficulties pointed out to me. oftentimes it feels like i’m being mocked or that people COULD understand, but they’re ■■■■■■■ with me. obviously i don’t know your son, but it might not be a thing to address directly. then again…not addressing has its own problems…

ah, i see what you mean by the cognition thing. yeah…i think i view my own cognition problems as separate, but influencing (more than, but also influenced by) my disorganized symptoms. i guess at root they’re all facets of the same problems for me, though. i have been diagnosed with adhd from childhood and i find my “cognition” things are more like, i have difficulty with reading comprehension if things are long…though i can write on and on and on…for some reason. i have very little attention span. i also have…i get sidetracked easily. but those things are …of course, now i can’t think of the word. they predate! that’s it. those things about me predate schizophrenia. though, they certainly aren’t aided by it. if anything, they’re made worse. but then, like i said above, i think they make the disorganization appear worse, too.

i don’t know if i answered your question, but i hope that helps.

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I have ADHD and I noticed that Adderall helps me with cognition and word salad. It’s because I space out, or can’t find the motivation and there’s this big roadblock. Before I was on ADHD meds I had such low memory and attention span that I couldn’t drive a car and I’d stare out the window not remembering a single road sign. I still struggle with the memory issues but not as badly now that I’m back on the medication.

Maybe there is a deficit due to schizophrenia and the blocks in memory and filter causes us to not remember language rules? I also used to be good at math. not anymore! I can’t even fathom algebra1 because it’s too much to remember and I’m more verbal and math is a different language altogether. I can count and multiply but I am not good at the more complicated math.

When I was either manic/psychotic I wrote a forty-thousand word story that made absolutely no sense lol!! I recall thinking it was brilliant, and being in the moment of the story but it really was completely disorganized and full of made up words and contexts. I did this a lot when I was manic. My thoughts just skipped around and I created my own context lol.

the blocks in memory could then be mania and adhd related. I think mine is mainly depression and fatigue but also related to the schizoaffective

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Thank you… It does help. I have been calling it word salad when perhaps I shouldn’t be. How you described it makes more sense.

Right now he is only medication as I have only had him home since Sunday night. He recently suffered a full break. Completely lost touch with reality on October 27.

I know he can get touchy about things. I try to ask questions like can you explain limbo… That’s how I’m able to understand what he means after he explains.

He also has underlying ADHD which predates his Sz.

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We tried Adderall… It triggered psychosis within 24 hours unfortunately.

I’m glad that it has helped you with cognition and word salad :thumbsup:

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Hi SurprisedJ, it sounds like you have the winter blues. I found myself slipping into that too and I started Celexa which is helping. I noticed that if I take anti-depressants it helps me write. I’m also on adderall though, and that helps me with the words, not the depression. Hope you cheer up stay positive!

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my issues with disorganized thinking/formal thought disorder are always worse in the aftermath of a complete break. from what you describe, and that bit of history, yeah…i think you’re right in thinking that that’s what’s likely happening.

it’s not that they can’t sneak up on me anytime (stress makes me more discombobulated, for example…and lack of sleep), but after i massively crack, that’s often the next phase, sorta. it’s almost as if things need to be put back together and it comes in stages. any negative symptoms i have would be the next phase.

i don’t know. i don’t say that to worry you more. but more to say that i’m doing ok now on all three fronts. i’m not as good as i was before all this hit, but slowly, maybe, each time/aftermath i’m still able to mostly recover. hoepfully i’ll get back closer to where i was before the last complete break i had. but it’s been months. i can’t say exactly how long. i’m crap with dates. but it does seem at times like it has to get worse and worse in the fixing process.

i don’t know what meds he’s on, but i’ve also found that conventional/typical antipsychotics are the only ones that help with the hallucinations/delusions part, but they don’t anything for the disorganization for me. that’s why i have to take two types. i understand and can appreciate that he’s not really interested in more meds or more anything having just gotten released and back home, but at some point, there might be ways to help more.

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hmm what i know is when ive been in full mania i can be talking so fast and off the top of my head saying things ive never even heard of or just complete jibberish. basically a verbal explosion

i have minor cognition issues i think, many times throughout the day i am looking for a word to say it can be something as simple as the word “car” and ill just keep trying to explain what that word is but never get to the actual word. its like the word has dissapeared. same with names, and names of places, i also mix up numbers all the time ill hear the address number 87945 and ill just write down 78495

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Word salad is a jumble of meaningless, confused, seemingly random, shifting, out of sequence, and generally unrelated words or phrases that lack logical meaning. Sometimes, the words may have some loose associations. The words may be grammatically correct, but not always. Regardless, the speech is incomprehensible and some of the words are made up (known as neologisms). An example of word salad would be “Popping bananas and zebra tries storing four selling in tryzing cars.”

http://www.medfriendly.com/word-salad.html

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