L-Methyl Folate?

Medications
21

Have you not tried any Choline like CDP-Choline or alpha GPC?
I’ve tried CDP-Choline and have found it good enough and post a thread about it here!
I also tried MSM last year and found it amazing for negative symptoms! I think because it also makes up methionine which is important for methylation. MSM was for me like Sarcosine for some people here. I have ordered Sarcosine and gonna try it soon!

1 Like
22

Oh that sounds great. As for choline type, I think for my goals and nutritional stack, alpha-gpc and cdp-choline seem like a poor fit.

I’ve read research from ‘Life Extension’ that Alpha-GPC is used by physicians in Europe to clinically treat Alzheimer’s. It also out performed phsphatidyl-choline for that purpose.

The main difference was Alpha GPC raised GABA and NGF (nerve growth factor). I figure since I already take theanine/kava for GABA and lion’s mane mushroom for NGF, I wouldn’t benefit much from alpha-gpc.

On the other hand sunflower lecithin (phosphatidyl choline) should help me build better brain cell membranes. Lions mane should grow said membranes and gaba should help for reasons that aren’t apparent to me.

That’s my logic anyway, some people would simply call me cheap!

My general idea is to clean the dendrites, repair the dendrites, grow the dendrites

Mitochondria Stack

  • Acetyl-L-Carnitine 500mgx2: cleans lipofuscin from dendrites, amyloid-beta, and tau-protein; makes acetylcholine; increases metabolism as brown fat and muscle

  • Alpha Lipoic Acid 600mgx1: repairs mitochondria and neuron cell walls; stops AP weight gain

  • CoQ10 Mitochondria bottle neck; Life span extension

Membrane Growth

  • Lions Mane Mushroom 500mgx1 w/sun lecithin (absorption): NGF (nerve growth factor)

  • Theanine 200mgx2 OR Kava 250mgx2 (weekly to prevent habituation and liver damage respectively): Anxiolytic/GABA increasers.

  • Phosphatidyl Choline from Sun Flower Lecithin 1.2gx2 of Lecithin: membrane substrate

Neurogenisis via Acetylcholine

  • Huperzine A 100mgx1
  • Vincopetine 10mgx1

Along with several other supplements that’s the general idea of how I use phosphatidyl choline instead of alpha gpc. I just wish comparative numbers were more available.

Gut Absorption and Bioavailability?

Blood brain barrier penetration? Saying it’s better doesn’t mean anything.

Most importantly in the presence of NGF and Anxiolytics does Alpha GPC still out perform?

When I don’t see the numbers I get suspicious.

I also tried msm but I had an allergic reaction to it.

2 Likes
23

Ditto on the turmeric w/bioperine. That seems to have been a small magic bullet. Hey, whatever works is my motto. And I think the omegas are good also.

1 Like
24

I didn’t know that Alpha GPC raise GABA and NGF! What I know that it is similar to CDP-Choline which raise acetyl Choline in the brain. Would that mean that CDP-Choline would raise GABA as well?
However, we seem that we are on the same boat! Although I’m doing a bit different.

Membrane growth and NGF

  • Lion’s mane mushroom 500mg daily. I don’t know why you take it weekly? Is it too much daily?

Neurogenisis

  • CDP-Choline 250mg daily
    I used to take Vinpoctine 10mg daily but stopped as I don’t need it now. Surprisingly my fears are gone with CDP-Choline!

BDNF(Brain-Derived Neurotrophic Factor)

  • Omega 3 high in EPA and DHA from life extension 1000mg daily.

  • NAC 500mg daily. It is also my anti oxidant supplement.

  • B3.

GABA/Glutamate balance

  • Taurine 500mg before bedtime.
    I should do more for GABA though.

Gut health
Organic Inulin.

I haven’t started anything to support Mitochondria yet but I have to, since I have two mutations on SOD. I would consider ALA later I guess. Well, I can say that I’m doing well on the above supplements and Sarcosine on its way to arrive :smiley:

1 Like
25

Hi Gansh, could you please send me the link of life extension article about Alpha GPC? I couldn’t find it. And could you please let me know about the proper dose of Lion’s mane? You seem that you take it weekly isn’t it?
The last question, do you take Sarcosine with your mentioned supplements? And is that OK?
Thank you in advance.

1 Like
26

Life extension about preserving brain alpha gpc.

http://www.lifeextension.com/Magazine/2003/7/report_gpc/Page-02

And if you take choline, carnitine, or sarcosine they are oxidized by gut bacteria into TMA and converted by the liver into TMAO.

Long story short, take grape seed extract to prevent that. It’s why the Mediterranean diet is effective.

27

Also I take the lions mane at least once a day. It’s the cheap Swanson stuff not even extract. It does work though. I’m still experimenting with it.

So far It seems to do well with vasodiolators, I’m thinking it would pair well with Theanine or kava

28

Thank you so much Gansh for the link. It is appreciated.
I’m not sure what did you mean by TMA and TMAO but will look it up, does that mean any anti oxidants will do the job?
I thought you were saying you take lion’s mane weekly! It actually make sense now :smiley: I actually take it every other day since CDP-Choline on its own very effective. And together they are strong. Probably will give it to my brother as he hears voices a lot! Do you think they are ok with positive symptoms? I mean they don’t interfere with it and make it worse?
I don’t have positive symptoms myself that’s why I don’t mind trying anything…

1 Like
29

Gut bacteria convert choline, sarcosine, and carnitine into TMA > human liver converts that into TMAO > Atherosclerosis (early death)

Prevent the above scenario with DMB the antioxidant has to also supply DMB. There are at least 5. Now you can eat steak and eggs without heart disease.

As for the Lion’s Mane, I think it’s more for cognitive symptoms. Theanine/Kava and Ashwaghandha (adaptogen) are more for positive.

That’s freaking cool that you don’t have any positive symptoms, we shouldn’t derail the thread if you get a chance pm me the secret!

30

Thanks for the link Gansh. Unfortunately I can’t pm you since I’m new user. I’ll try to search antioxidants that supply DMB. Would you know any except Grebe seed extract? I do take NAC daily and sometimes vitamin C or Selenium. Well, for positive symptoms I don’t hallucinate but I can be paranoid and I do suffer from thoughts disorder, as well as panic disorder but most of people don’t consider it as positive and I don’t see it as positive symptoms as well. However my paranoia and thoughts dirorder seem kind of smooth now since I’ve started NAC and high Omega 3. CDP-Choline helped me with fears and made me a bit confident, and also support my cognitive.
My issues based on genes analysis include these: Low BDNF, NMDA dysfunction, high inflammation, Mitochondrial dysfunction. And I do have MTHFR mutation but heterozygous. I do have high Glutamate and low GABA as well but it doesn’t affect me that much as I’m quiet and I sleep well. What really has a big impact on my health is BDNF and dysfunction NMDA.

3 Likes
31

Wow, this thread has been informative and gives much food for research and thought. Thanks for all :slight_smile:

3 Likes
32

This is quite informative. I have been down the road of orthomolecular psychiatry and have been testrd doe methylation issues and pyrole dosorder. Its so complex, i dont know about chemisty etc. Ive tried a vitamin shedule for 5-6months and it had no effect at all, from Dr abraham hoffers clinic. Disapointed and various others works. They were a dead end. Could you suggest a website for treatment at all? I think im alergic to AP’s and i need something, its difficult for me. Peace. :blush: im thinking everyone is against me and living in fear and avoiding being social. Basically lol

33

@Gnash Have you felt weird when you start taking Sarcosine? Sorry to mention you here but couldn’t post on the Sarcosine thread since I already posted 3 posts. Could you please reply there? Thanks

34

Hi Be2be, there is no website for treatment as far as I know. But you need to do Genetics test which is 23andme (the best), after you receive your data, you can interpret them through various available websites. You would have an idea about what is going on inside your body. You would also have some recommendations on some supplements…etc It is better than trying random supplements that may not work for you.
Good luck!

1 Like
35

There is actually research that suggests this is true - see these studies:

and

4 Likes
36

Be2be: Sorry to hear that your APs aren’t working out. As for websites that deal with schizophrenia supplements. The best I’ve found is the vitamin section on this website. It’s consistently evidence based.

I haven’t completely worked things out for my self, but this is what I do.

  1. BFK: Metafolin B-Complex; B-12; CoQ10 w/Bioperine; Multivitamin; Ashwagandha; Butterbur; C+NAC1; Sarcosine1; ALCAR1

  2. LCH: Anxiolytic1; Grape Seed Extract; Lion’s Mane; Sunflower Lecithin; Zinc; K2+D3; C+NAC2; Sarcosine2

  3. SNK: Mg1; E+Omega-3; Anti-Inflammatory; Resveratrol Extract Complex; Milk Thistle; C+NAC3; ALCAR2

  4. DIN: DGL Licorice; Ginkgo; Anxiolytic2; Mg2

  • Metafolin is the only form of folate that crosses the blood brain barrier. It is the single most important supplement that I take. Thinking of adding lithium rotate to amplify the folate cycle.

  • Biopeperine enhances the absorption of the B vitamins.

  • Acid helps B-vitamins absorb, so no magnesium with B-vits.

  • Thinking of adding lithium orotate to amplify the folate cycle.

  • Butterbur is there as a beta blockers/anti-inflammatory

  • Anxiolytics are rotated weekly between Theanine and Kava.

  • Anti-Inflammatories rotated between turmeric complex w/ bioperine and boswellia in mct oil.

  • Resveratrol complex, milk thistle, and n-acetyl cysteine + vitamin C are for immune system support.

  • I think dgl licorice night be the most powerful adaptogen for SZ

What supplement is most important will depend on your most pressing need. For me it’s all symptoms. I am looking at anti-psychotic medications like invega, but I’m not convinced they’d help me much.

Please don’t trust anything I’ve written, google the supplements yourself.

Best of luck.

2 Likes
37

The first time I took sarcosine was preset amazing, I felt a mania high. Unfortunately afterward, I felt a crash. I think it lasted four hours.

The following days I experienced something similar, but my highs and lows began to smooth out. Now a days I feel pretty good with or without it.

If I don’t take the b vitamins my negative symptoms begin to return. I’m hoping that sarcosine reverses the brain damage associated with schizophrenia.

I’m still trying to figure out the cognitive symptoms, I know you mentioned cdp choline. I’m also looking a gotu kola.

Gotu Kola, Lion’s Mane, and Lithium Orotate are all supposed to raise nerve growth factor. There choline exterase inhibitors in everything, ashwagandha grape seed extract and the biggest one huperzine a.

So much to research so little time, but it’s fun.

2 Likes
38

Thanks @Gnash for your reply. So you didn’t feel well when you took Sracosine for the first time, I thought I’m the only one haha. My brother is the same btw. Today is the 3rd day and if I continue feeling the same I would discontinue it. I don’t want to be more ill :frowning:
CDP-Choline was the only supplement that has a big positive effect on me. But I would cycle it on/off to avoid tolerance.
Give it a tray and see how you feel. If you didn’t feel anything in a week stop taking it, because it gives results in a week or less. But I would advise you to not take it with a lot of supplements especially those that support cognitive and memory, to see its real effect. I did that myself.
There is an article says that CDP-Choline also raise BDNF besides Acetyl-Choline. How better it could be if it raise BDNF? :smiley:
Another interesting supplement beside Lion’s Mane and Lithium Orotate , is Gastrodin
I haven’t tried it yet since there is a study saying that it could down-regulate the immune system, but to be honest I doubt it. I would give it a try later this year.

39

Thanks for the recommendations. I read an article from life extensions on the article. It does look interesting.

Also, I accidentally miscommunicated my experience of sarcosine. I meant I e-perienced hedonic pleasure. Like an anti-depressant high that was thankfully legal.

I’m more interested in how sarcosine can reverse brain damage than how it makes me feel. I felt good on b vitamins but I felt even better after adding sarcosine.

If I decide to try cdp choline It’ll be in about 4 months. Until then though.

1 Like
40

I’m also interested in Life extension article about Gastrodine. It is just a bit expensive!
Oh sorry I misunderstood you regarding Sarcosine. Well, I thought about it and found that, for those who have completely dysfunction NMDA, needs more time for Sarcosine to work and may feel uncomfortable when they first start taking Sarcosine or D-serine(NMDA activator) like in my case, because I do have homozygous mutation in DAOA gene which lead to dangerous NMDA dysfunction. I might be mistaken but this is what it could be. Otherwise why I felt down and had negative symptoms straight after taking Sarcosine?! I’ve reduced the dose to only 500mg daily and it is ok, no side effect.
Btw, I became more interested in B-complex from your experience and some research here! But can’t take Methyl version since I have 3 COMT heterozygous mutations lead to high dopamine and methyl group would make them worse, so in my case would trigger more Schizophrenia symptoms sadly.

1 Like